iFeminism is a scam

Started by LST, Aug 21, 2004, 11:14 PM

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Double Jeopardy

I never said I liked or disliked her. I said I knew her pretty well.  What I tried to point out is if anyone disagreed with LST8000 about his charge of Ifeminism being fake and Wendy being a false prophet, to assess his allegation. It makes no sense to dance a fools dance to upstage the alleged fool.

kal147 appears to be a slow learner. I'll wait right here and let him catch up. :lol:

Double Jeopardy

Double post.

Tony Ananda

I used to be a fan of Wendy McElroy but I don't bother reading her stuff anymore.  The same goes for Cathy Young.  They both said what they had to say about five years ago and since then have been treading over the same ground.  

Now let's examine Christina Hoff Sommers' latest piece;

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=14801

There she goes again saying that feminism at one time was wonderful and accomplished wonderful things for women until it was hijacked by fundamentalist fanatics.  I disagree.  I think feminism was based on hatred and some tawdry dissatisfactions that plague modern life.  It was essentially shallow and self serving from the get go.  Does that mean I want Christina to fuck off and die?  No, I want her to keep doing what she is doing even though she is a little off.  She could (and should) be much stronger in her condemnation of the origins of feminism which, I feel, she hasn't examined closely enough.  Maybe she will some day.
When the going gets weird, the wierd turn pro.

Galt

I used to like both Wendy McElroy and Cathy Young.  My current opinion:

Wendy McElroy: I've seen remarks from her on her message boards - and not just one or two times - that indicate that she has a real problem with "MRAs" or even men who stick up for themselves.  I get the feeling that she is a bossy person who is defending her turf - the fact that she earns her living as a mediocre writer due to a niche.  I also get the same feeling as posters above that she (thinks she ....) knows what men should do.  I no longer trust her motives - just a personal opinion.

In full disclosure, I was banned from her message boards, but I think my opinion is independent of that.  In fact, I probably got banned because I felt like being a troublemaker - BECAUSE of my opinion of her.

Cathy Young: I used to really like her, but her columns lately try too hard to "see all sides" - and they consequently don't really say anything.  I think she's just gotten used to doing her columns and doesn't want to rock the boat anymore.  I really liked her early stuff, and she's probably a nice person.

Mr Benn

The reason why many MRA are very aggravated by iFeminists is partially summarised in this article by AH:

http://www.angryharry.com/esEquityFeminists.htm

also, I don't see the fact that iFeminsts support "equality" as being in and of itself of benefit to men. The endless quest for "equality" between the sexes has done society a lot of harm, and some of this is also summarised in another AH article:

http://www.angryharry.com/esEqualityNotAchievable.htm
ww.CoolTools4Men.com

Galt

I get the feeling that "IFeminists" is supposed to become a trademark.

I went to high school with a guy who had his "trademark" tattoed on him.  I mean, cool, in high school.  He later went to prison, and his egotism seemed to have a fading importance as I got older.

Wendy McElroy is starting a movement.  She is really important.  Umm ... OK.

Double Jeopardy

Galt I don't remember seeing you on Wendy's forum, were you posting as Galt then?  I am in total agreement with both you and Mr. Benn and subsequently,  AH.  Your statement overall where Wendy and Ifeminism is concerned is something I can really sink my teeth into.  Whenever a woman comes from the POV of " I know what is best for men " , I get a strong doubt about their bottom line purpose and what it really means to men.

kal147

Steven wrote:

Quote
Gee .. KAL likes Wendy ... Double Jepordy likes Wendy


Clearly double jeopardy doesn't care much for Wendy, he stated that:

Quote
Some of us are undecided


However, he seems to fully support the initial post of this thread, the salient features being:

1) it is clear that she (Wendy) hates men,

2) She wants pornography to be protected so that women can continue being sexual idols in the minds of men and men will worship them and be obsessed about sex and have psychosexual disorders.

3) Let us all show Wendy McElroy the middle finger.

Double Jeopardy seems to be on some sort of twisted soap box defending the above. Well, what is it -- is he undecided about Wendy, or is he simply as ignorant as he seems.

dr e

Kal - That is looking too close to a personal attack to me.  Please edit.  Let's attack the ideas not the people.
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

Stallywood

I used to lurk the Ifeminist site but I have given it up. I came to the conclusion that that site is not about fixing the hard problems as those are danced around, and the writer is usually condemed for generlization. Cause as we all know, "All women arent like that" and the women who do throw us a bone every now and again, are supposed to though of as angels. Anyone can pay lip service, and if I am accused of hate because I dont bow down at the throne of Wendy, so be it.  
LST8000:  dont let them get you down.
Stally
Gentleman is a man who consciously serves women. I prefer the golden rule.

Behind every great man, is a
parasite.

Women who say men won't commit, usually aren't worth committing to.

Double Jeopardy

Quote from: "Dr Evil"
Kal - That is looking too close to a personal attack to me.  Please edit.  Let's attack the ideas not the people.


I don't mind,  Dr. Evil.  He can think whatever he wants.  From I have seen of kal147 is that he likes to practice that which he protests.  Sticks and stones, as it where. :lol:

Stallywood

An article from a man who also has his differences:

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=7014#


Another Perspective
Is Evolution Leaving Men Behind?   By Christopher Orlet  
Published 8/23/2004 12:05:03 AM

Here's something Charles Darwin in all his philosophies never imagined. As the third millennium of the common era kicks off more American women than men are graduating with baccalaureate and post- baccalaureate degrees. More women are enrolled in law schools, journalism schools, and soon, they will exceed men in all professional schools, with the exception the dreary schools of engineering and business. At this rate, women will soon overtake men as the top wage earners. Evolution is leaving men behind.

Unless something drastic happens, like affirmative action for males, women that hope to find a man roughly their intellectual and financial equal will find their pickin's slim. Predictably feminists consider this turn of events a boon for civilization. Wendy McElroy, editor of ifeminists.com, plays into the school-girl fantasy of many of her progressive sisters in which women lawyers find fulfilling, long-term relationships in the rough arms of beefy construction workers. McElroy explains, "There is a 'marriage crisis' only for women and in-laws who demand an attorney or doctor for a husband and do not wish to welcome a plumber or mechanic into the family." Feminist writer Germaine "The Female Eunuch" Greer once acted on similar fantasies, and went as far as corralling a young stud. It scarcely took a Kreskin to predict their marriage would self-destruct within the month.

McElroy, who writes a column for FoxNews.com, reports being dismayed at finding educated women who are "genuinely horrified at the prospect of dealing with 'lesser' and 'lower' men as equals in their personal lives." But one of the findings of evolutionary psychology is that females of whatever species are hot-wired to find the best possible mate. When a woman looks for a lifelong companion she is genetically encouraged to look up, not down. University of Texas psychologist David Buss has shown female preference for successful males applies across no fewer than 37 cultures. Other studies reinforce the age-old notion that the more successful the man, the greater the demand.

Meanwhile a 1996 AGB McNair poll found that "one of the major reasons professional women gave for seeking men who were their equals or better was they wanted to ensure they had choices," reports Australia's The Age. "Women knew if they were the principal earners in the family they would be under pressure to keep working, even if they wanted to take time out to look after their own children. Marrying up ensured they would never face that difficult decision." That said, many modern women prefer to believe that they have evolved beyond primitive biology, that only a man's character, and not his ability to support a family is important. But her stubborn genes say otherwise.

McElroy insists that notions of "lesser" and "lower" should be defined according to a man's character, not his income or education, as if the latter had no effect on the former. Indeed, she fails to understand why marriage-minded Vassar girls do not slap on the war paint and head out for the tire repair shop in search of love. According to this logic, a charming, fun-loving tramp would make a more suitable marriage partner than a stoical chemist. Sadly a man's character does not pay the rent, nor does it afford good health care for your offspring or get them into Exeter, and it certainly doesn't help you move out of the slums of North St. Louis and into a relatively safe suburb.

But perhaps this is to be expected from a writer who believes that "marriage is a healthy institution that adapts quickly to circumstance." Healthy as compared to an African AIDS colony, perhaps. And as for marriage adapting, how does one explain the 40-plus percent failure rate of marriages? That's not adaptation, that's extinction.

Darwin would suggest that women will simply have to adapt to their new environment, a setting in which most of the male prospects, though fun-loving and impetuous, are intellectually and financially inferior. Predictably fun-loving and impetuous men do not make the best prospects for long-term relationships. But then perhaps women will adapt to short-term relationships, as have most breeds of dog. Men have already adapted to the end of housewifery, mostly by zoning out in front of the TV, until they are rudely awakened by the swat of the divorce papers.

Some enterprising young researcher should study the marriage and divorce rates of women who marry "beneath them" versus women who marry equally or above them. I suspect, as with Murray and Herrnstein's Bell Curve findings, that feminists will immediately seek to suppress the results.


Christopher Orlet is a freelance writer.
 


Stally
Gentleman is a man who consciously serves women. I prefer the golden rule.

Behind every great man, is a
parasite.

Women who say men won't commit, usually aren't worth committing to.

Tony Ananda

When the going gets weird, the wierd turn pro.

Stallywood

Quote from: "Tony Ananda"
... and Wendy's response.

http://www.ifeminists.net/interaction/forum/viewtopic.php?t=870



Thanks. I will check it out.
Stally
Gentleman is a man who consciously serves women. I prefer the golden rule.

Behind every great man, is a
parasite.

Women who say men won't commit, usually aren't worth committing to.

Stallywood

Okay checked it out. Women still marry up. Her reply in my opinion did not refute the article. Neither did the thread. Tony: what did you think?
Stally
Gentleman is a man who consciously serves women. I prefer the golden rule.

Behind every great man, is a
parasite.

Women who say men won't commit, usually aren't worth committing to.

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