Anarcho-Psychism

Started by typhonblue, Oct 24, 2004, 01:13 AM

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Galt

A lot of advancement in the world comes from seeing things from a new perspective, and I have no doubt that if feminists were the only ones on the planet not many new inventions would be created.  Their major focus in that situation would probably be on trying to find something else that was oppressing them and making them victims.

Double Jeopardy

Quote from: "The Biscuit Queen"
Women do not get tired from playing the nagging, put down games because it shifts the blame and guilt from themselves to someone else. If something happens, and it is her fault, she must deal with the emotions of self-loathing, guilt, insecurity, and failure. These tend to be pretty depressing emotions. But if she can shift blame to someone else, then she feels self confident, blameless, innocent, and rightious. These tend to be pretty uplifting emotions. If something happens and it is no ones fault, she will out of habit still blame someone else, to remove any doubt in her mind that she was the one to be blamed. I think women have a hard time not blaming someone. They want answers so they can discuss it in order to get through it, where men tend to just accept that things happen and move on, at least on the outside. This all is explained by emotions just as easily as 'energies'.

I would caution everyone here that blindly accepting this theory and openly supporting it is going to make you look like a fruit loop. Whether her theory has weight or not, and I tend to be very skeptical of these things,  the men's movement has strength in grounding itself in reality and facts.  Swinging way over into outer space is not going to make the movement credible, which at this point is one of the major battles.

I know some people here, like Gonzo, doesn't give a rats ass what people think. Good for him. I know that the only way this movement is going to get off the ground is through persuading people. As Proximo says in Gladiator, "Win the crowd, and you win Rome."     I have said this many times, on different boards, our behaviors are under scrutiny 24/7. The feminists will use anything they can to discredit us, and I am sure someone is having a grand laugh at this very thread right now.

Believe what you will, but remember they have openly said they were watching us. Is this what you want the feminists labeling us with next? 'Psycic vampires' seems almost hand picked to ridicule us.


While this subject is a fun and interesting read, I agree BQ.

typhonblue

Quote from: "The Biscuit Queen"
If something happens and it is no ones fault, she will out of habit still blame someone else, to remove any doubt in her mind that she was the one to be blamed. I think women have a hard time not blaming someone. They want answers so they can discuss it in order to get through it, where men tend to just accept that things happen and move on, at least on the outside. This all is explained by emotions just as easily as 'energies'.


This is slightly out of left field... the discussion was about an experience of being drained by a psychic vampire, not about what the psychic vampire feels.

What about the ubiquitous question, "am I fat?" No blame is being placed, yet the act of affirming is draining.

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I would caution everyone here that blindly accepting this theory and openly supporting it is going to make you look like a fruit loop.


Hehe, I prefer the term "batshit insane".

BTW, I don't think anyone is blindly accepting the theory.

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Whether her theory has weight or not, and I tend to be very skeptical of these things,  the men's movement has strength in grounding itself in reality and facts.  Swinging way over into outer space is not going to make the movement credible, which at this point is one of the major battles.


Do you think I'm campaigning to have this added to the men's rights movement platform...?

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98. Increase the number of men teachers K-9.

99. Address the negative portrayals of men in the media.

100. Oh yeah, and stop consuming our precious male essence!!@W!!!

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I know some people here, like Gonzo, doesn't give a rats ass what people think. Good for him. I know that the only way this movement is going to get off the ground is through persuading people.


This is true.

I think the most powerful way to pursuade people is to entertain them. Maybe part of the reason why feminists are so focused on their own dogma: they simply find thinking about men's feelings boring.

I've also found that presenting a viewpoint that spans two (on the surface) diseperate ideas tends to spark the dogmatic into opening their minds a little.

"Hmm... I don't believe/find boring X, but I do believe/find interesting Y and I never noticed that strong connection between them before... I should revaluate my ideas about X." I think this may be one of the reasons why when I posted my rebuttal to "I'm not feminist but..." on the @ forums, eventually I ended up with two green dots instead of a spat of red ones.

There are a number of feminists who believe in new agey type stuff like this. And, although I was being facetious when I said the psychic "valve" on women is only one way, there are women who have also experienced being the victim of a psychic vampire. Further I think a lot of feminist anger comes from the twisting of *female* initiated violence(psychic and emotional) to a *male* cause.

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I have said this many times, on different boards, our behaviors are under scrutiny 24/7. The feminists will use anything they can to discredit us, and I am sure someone is having a grand laugh at this very thread right now.


No doubt.

In fact I intercepted a memo discussing just this very thing...

Quote from: "Moon Energy"

To: MotherGoddessIsis
From: MoonEnergy

The men's rights bigots are talking about psychic vampirism!!!! Dosen't that just make them so silly, after all we know that women generate spirtual energy spontaneously by rubbing sacred crystals, burning insence and listening to tapes of the "Vagina Monologs".

P.S. Im free thursday if you want to rub our crystals together.



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Believe what you will, but remember they have openly said they were watching us. Is this what you want the feminists labeling us with next? 'Psycic vampires' seems almost hand picked to ridicule us.


Is that a conspiracy theory in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?

I'm not trying to present truth... just talk about something I find entertaining. After all once you find truth, you're stuck with it, and that sounds pretty boring.

BTW, LST, I'm going to answer your question I just need time. And I warn you I'm a complete neophyte so I will probably get it wrong. Also, I am still in the process of answering the question you sent via PM. So relax dude... you must be a Picses.

The Biscuit Queen

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This is slightly out of left field... the discussion was about an experience of being drained by a psychic vampire, not about what the psychic vampire feels.


Actually it isn't. Someone, I am not sure if it was you or not, mentioned they wondered why women would continue to nag and blame when it obviously wasn't giving them pleasure. This energy sucking must be the answer. I was giving another scenario which did not involve new age theories, but known emotional manipulations.

I think that making statements which hurt people, whether set up or not, makes one feel drained because it feels bad to hurt other people. We are not meant to go around causing people pain, it is counter to us being social animals.  This is why it is considered deviant to like causing pain, whether your a sado masichist, a serial killer, or Howard Stern. While some part of most people is voyeristic, and is fascinated by seeing these traits in others, which explains some porn, murder mysteries, and Howard Stern, those same people cannot do the same to others.

I think what you have done here is make keen observations, which others have made and explored , but then applied a new age reason for said behaviors.
he Biscuit Queen
www.thebiscuitqueen.blogspot.com

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.

typhonblue

Quote from: "The Biscuit Queen"

Actually it isn't. Someone, I am not sure if it was you or not, mentioned they wondered why women would continue to nag and blame when it obviously wasn't giving them pleasure. This energy sucking must be the answer. I was giving another scenario which did not involve new age theories, but known emotional manipulations.


LST mentioned that and to my knowledge no one said energy sucking must be the answer. I believe LST also used it as an counter example, saying that energy sucking *couldn't* explain it.

But since you've presented a good argument against a point no one made, I'll be sure to consider your conclusion that emotions are behind emotional manipulation.

It's far fetched, but it might just be plausible.

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I think what you have done here is make keen observations, which others have made and explored , but then applied a new age reason for said behaviors.


Yes that is what I've done.

Anyway, unless someone wants to actually debate some evidence, research or theories, or chat about relevant experiences... I think this thread is going the way of the dodo. :cry: ;)

SouthernGuy

Interesting theory typhon,  I always believed that people feed of each others energies. Because of this, I've always believed in my own little "out there" theory of "emotional waves" that spread over localized populations.

For instance, person "a" gets called into the office and gets a negative critique of his or her job performance. Person goes out to lunch and because they are stressed, pissed and worried about their job, they treat their waiter who WAS in a good mood like shit and leave a small tip. Waiter gets pissed and fumbles through his next few tables, screwing up a few orders and pissing off person "b", "c", "d" and "e" in process who are late getting back to work, setting in motion a chain of events perpetuating more negativity in their lives as well.

Waiter gets home and can't shake his mood from earlier, which is then transferred to his girlfriend, who is about to go hang out with her girlfriends. In this manner, "moods" could spread like waves over localized populations, I always imagined defining them as color coded areas on a digital map of your city. The map I've always imagined as dymanic and ever changing, almost like a weather map on a computer screen. The colors would blend into each other, with no hard borders between them, just an area where a general somewhat definable mood is in the majority. "Red" would obviously sybolize anger or negative energy,  
blue would represent peaceful energy or a general absence of negative waves.

In other words, a city can be like a body of water, one huge negative event can be like a stone thrown in it, with the negative waves spreading out in all directions like a ripple in still water. I don't know, I'm probably full of shit. Enjoyed reading your OP though...

SG

dr e

Hey SG Good to see you.  Interesting ideas.  Like you, I have noticed with people that emotions/energy are contagious.  Negative crap can spread like wildfire but so can positive energy.  Sometimes what people need is just a small dose of positive energy that can start to snowball.  Both positive and negative energies tend to snowball in relationship it is a matter of which seed gets precedence and lights things up.  Couples who are seriously arguing can sometimes short circuit this with a third party stewarding a short discussion about when they first met and what they loved about each other, or what they admire in their partner.  Once the positive is flowing the couple then has a much better chance at solving their disagreements in a rational calm sort of way.  There is a tremendous amount that we simply don't know about emotions and subtle energy.
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

The Biscuit Queen

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For example think of a wife/girlfriend that nags her husband/boyfriend and blames him for everything and is catty and vindictive. What is the point of behaving that way ? Doesn't she want to have a nice time, especially if it is a husband... does she not want to have a happy peaceful family where she can feel at home ? Apparently she doesn't. I think that it is valid to make a conclusion that this is somehow fulfilling for her. Although i am not sure that they are draining energy that way... wouldn't being angry and fighting all the time waste energy instead of gaining it ? Do women gain energy from arguments and fights ? But nonetheless, they do seem to enjoy them...


I think that he was not sure, and brought up the question. And it was a good question. One that has been explored and explained through cognitive therapy.   It did not seem to me much of an argument was made, in fact it seemed one of those rhetorical questions.

I think that all you have done is exchange the word 'emotion' with 'energy'. Modern therapy, at least good therapy based on getting results, not continuing to keep patients, is based on figuring out what is the emotional motivation for bad behaviors, following them through to the base thoughts, then working to change the base thoughts. All this has been studied before.

I do agree that emotion, or moods, are contagious, how people react to stimulus can be spread, that is another old theory, usually accompanied bythe ripple in the pond analogy. I remember seeing a video on MTV illustrating that effect, back in the 80s.  

I had a friend once who was in an honors forum with me. She was a psychology major, and she did her paper for the semester on this new therapy she designed. She called it Emotivation, and wrote 50 + pages on what it was supposed to be. She was devistated when she did not recieve an A, mainly because it was not original. She took theories that have been in use for decades and tried to rename them. Of course, she may have come up with the ideas independantly and just hadn't read enough to find her ideas used already, which given that she was only in her second semester is likely. I myself have gone through that when I created a style of drawing unique to me only to find someone a century ago had already done it.  That is why I never presume I am first at anything. There have been a lot of people before me a lot smarter and more imaginative than I.

Oh, and no I don't think you are a plant, I am not one for conspiracy theories, I don't know what made you think down that route.  I meant that if someone wanted to discredit us, they couldn't do much better than psychic vampires. Maybe feminists would not complain, but many men new to the movement would run fast.

Is this thread at a close because you don't like discussing it?  You brought it up, and I have tried my best to be civil and fair, and everyone else but DJ agrees with you.
he Biscuit Queen
www.thebiscuitqueen.blogspot.com

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.

The Biscuit Queen

double post
he Biscuit Queen
www.thebiscuitqueen.blogspot.com

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.

The Gonzman

I know there are people out there who leave one sapped and drained, no matter how pleasant they may appear to be, and some who leave you fired up and quivering with energy, no matter how disagreeable they might be.

This explains it as well as anything I have ever heard.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

LST

Quote from: "typhonblue"
Quote from: "The Biscuit Queen"

Actually it isn't. Someone, I am not sure if it was you or not, mentioned they wondered why women would continue to nag and blame when it obviously wasn't giving them pleasure. This energy sucking must be the answer. I was giving another scenario which did not involve new age theories, but known emotional manipulations.


LST mentioned that and to my knowledge no one said energy sucking must be the answer. I believe LST also used it as an counter example, saying that energy sucking *couldn't* explain it.

I didn't use it as an example or a counter example, just asked a question. Since apparently nagging and arguing is enjoyable for them why else would they do it ? It is possible that the enjoyment they derive from arguments is emotional/psychological and it is possible that it is because of feeding on the victim's energy. So i asked wouldn't the nagging and arguing make them expend energy rather then collect it. I am not an energy expert and not a psychology expert and i don't have an answer in mind. This question is actually pretty confusing. 8--(
I personally get tired of fights and arguments and don't find it enjoyable to nag anyone (as a joke sometimes, if the person reacts humorously), but i am also not a woman...
So i don't see how this can be emotionally enjoyable (isn't it better to live in peace than in a constant hell of fights and bitterness ?) and i don't see how this can be energetically enjoyable, since it seems to me that when someone is being angry and bitter they are wasting energy, not gaining it. I have even read advices about how to develop psychic powers etc, saying that you must be relaxed and focused and not anxious/annoyed/upset/angry. So both explanations don't make much sense !
And this is also why i asked about whether the EMA of an energy vampire must be higher than the victim. Perhaps energy vampirism is not necessarily related to a strong EMA. That means that an energy vampire isn't necessarily good in other energy manipulating fields... maybe they aren't even conscious that they are doing it.

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Also, I am still in the process of answering the question you sent via PM.

Woah dude, this must be a pretty huge reply. 8--)

Also Biscuit Queen, it's just a discussion, calm down ! This is a discussion forum, so we discuss stuff. No one is adding it as part of the official  agenda "women are energy vampires, they should stop it >:--( !"

Also another topic, is energy vampirism female-specific ? I wouldn't know, but in all the examples that i have seen of people talking about it it has been a woman. Of course most examples probably were written by nutty people that are uncredible...
o pity for feminazis.

Sir Jessy of Anti

Quote from: "LST"
Also another topic, is energy vampirism female-specific ? I wouldn't know, but in all the examples that i have seen of people talking about it it has been a woman. Of course most examples probably were written by nutty people that are uncredible...


I have no opinion on energy vampirism per se, but your question raises an interesting correlation to what some scientists have discovered.  They found that women are more likely to want to talk to de-stress or wind down after a hard day.  Women on the whole in the study were more likely to want to 'talk about their day', though that talking did not always have a tangible solution as its goal.  They theorized that it was the talking and relating that brought a feeling of accomplishment and served to relax them.   Whereas men are more likely to take relaxation in activities that unfocused the mind after a long day, their methods of relaxation were often diametrically opposed to the womens'.  This could somewhat explain the alleged phenomenon of emotional-vampirism as being a primarily female concept.
"The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master." -- Ayn Rand<br /><br />

dr e

I think we are talking about two separate things Jessy.  Women will lean towards a "tend a befriend" response to stress due to hormones.  Oxytocin is released in both men and women due to stress and it basically encourages people to talk and "cuddle."  The researcher you mentioned is named Shelly Taylor and she obtained some fascinating results.  She helped in bringing awareness to the fact that men have oxytocin released due to stress but their testosterone nullifies the oxytocin and leaves men more apt to "fight or flight."  The fight is translated as taking some action and the flight is withdrawal which could be contemplation, avoidance, isolation or even relaxation.  Of course the female response of talking about things and openly emoting (which is a result of the oxytocin/estrogen) is seen as the healthy response and the male finding space is seen as pathological.  

The vampire idea has more to do with an inter-personal dynamic where one person is depleting the energy of another rather than a response to stress.

LST you have good questions.  I think one thing to remember is that the person who is depleting the other may not necessarily "enjoy" the process.  It likely won't make them "happy."  But it is something they do to keep their tank full.  It is interesting to note that men in general seem to prefer to avoid relationship discussions and tend to feel the need to "brace themselves" prior to this sort of interchange.  Perhaps this is related.
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

Sir Jessy of Anti

My point was just that harrassment and nagging causes stress for the man, and women are more likely to do this (nagging him as to how he 'feels' about everything etc etc) as such can be related to emotional vampirism by the fact that this is not his normal mode of behavior and is thus interpreted as energy depletion - and that science seems to have provided some clue as to why it might be that this type of behavior is actually physiologically 'good' for her while being physiologically 'bad' for him.

Also this would perhaps help in understanding why this is paradigm is fem-centric in it's application of parasite and host.  I have known a few men that would be considered parasites, but that's not to say the bio-evolutionary evidence isn't related.
"The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master." -- Ayn Rand<br /><br />

typhonblue

Quote from: "The Biscuit Queen"

I think that he was not sure, and brought up the question. And it was a good question. One that has been explored and explained through cognitive therapy.   It did not seem to me much of an argument was made, in fact it seemed one of those rhetorical questions.


Yes you're right he did bring it up as more of a question then a counter-example. However you presented your argument as if someone had used that senario as evidence for psychic vampires.

To whit:

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This energy sucking must be the answer.


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I think that all you have done is exchange the word 'emotion' with 'energy'. Modern therapy, at least good therapy based on getting results, not continuing to keep patients, is based on figuring out what is the emotional motivation for bad behaviors, following them through to the base thoughts, then working to change the base thoughts. All this has been studied before.


Why don't you address the argument I presented to Galt when he questioned me?

BTW, I'm not the original proponent of psychic vampirism (or, as you put it, replacing emotion with energy). I'm not even the original proponent of women-taking-men's-spirtual energy. As far as I know Dave Sim is.

I'm just trying to bring all this shit together in a way that makes sense for me. If it makes sense for other people, by all means we can have some fun with it.

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That is why I never presume I am first at anything. There have been a lot of people before me a lot smarter and more imaginative than I.


Nothing is really original. And believe me I know did not develop the idea of psychic vampirism. Also, the only thing I've outlined using anarcho-psychism is an approach to crime prevention. I haven't even gotten into any other aspect. Not the mechanics, not my ideas on how it will affect networks, programming languages, economics, haptics... games... hell, the way we process geophysical data. (And I'm not going to.)

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Oh, and no I don't think you are a plant, I am not one for conspiracy theories, I don't know what made you think down that route.  I meant that if someone wanted to discredit us, they couldn't do much better than psychic vampires.


Hmm...

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'Psycic vampires' seems almost hand picked to ridicule us.


It was the "hand picked" part that got me thinking conspiracy theory. BTW, I thought you were implying Dave Sim was the plant.

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Maybe feminists would not complain, but many men new to the movement would run fast.


And maybe they'll just ignore it if they think it's irrelevant/boring/batshit insane.

Somehow I give people more credit then that. From my experience men's rights activists are very diverse, racially, ethnically, religiously... I've met libertarians, conservatives even liberals, and I've talked to MRAs who are more into aspects of new age culture then I am. And... this may come as a shocker to some... the first MRA I *ever* encountered was gay. Yes. GAY. That was years ago before I really even knew what an MRA was. With all these diverse creeds and creedos and such, there is bound to be topics that piss off/bore/irritate some MRAs that others enjoy.

I think the only thing that really defines MRAs is a mutual desire to see men to having a fair shake in society.

And I agree with that.

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Is this thread at a close because you don't like discussing it?  You brought it up, and I have tried my best to be civil and fair, and everyone else but DJ agrees with you.


Thats sort of an odd interpretation. First of all I can't close a thread, only a moderator can. And second of all I'd rather like this thread to continue. I was just suggesting we get this party started with some real debate.

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