a recent expirience

Started by The Biscuit Queen, Feb 09, 2005, 12:22 PM

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kal147

Hi Hachu,

I want to welcome you to our board. I hope you can learn a few things here ... and we are willing to learn from you as well.

Everybody here loathes rape in its' classical meaning, however, we seek to uncover and expose the whole truths of the matter'

You wrote:

Quote
The problem here is this is a result of backlash, created by men, law, and other women, from before not believing, championing, or blaming a woman that said she was raped unless she was lilly white, and the accused had a black face that was a cause for action, alright!


This is true Hachu, however, it goes beyond simple backlash. The media created an atmosphere of unwarranted fear using false and misleading statistics promulgated by feminists in order to create sensationalistic fear among the population. Politicians used this as capital by promising to get tough and lock away offenders ... and securing votes thereby. Legislation was passed to water down the definition so that more and more men could be prosecuted ... and the politicians vindicated.

The criminal justice system loved it as it created more and more business for themselves. Lawyers, the prison industry, parole officers, therapists, womens advocates, etc.... all profit by the increased incarceration of the guilty and innocent alike. It's become an industry.

Quote
The abuse of the word Rape, and the laws affecting such, can only be changed by men.


It must be changed by everyone ... and change starts with the truth.

Quote
women, as a whole aren't capable, because there are too many places on this damned earth where woman/infant/children/teens/adults are being damaged ... for the simple fact of them being female.


Isn't something missing here? Where are the men in all this suffering? That's we we do here -- expose the suffering of men in a place where they can be heard. Men suffer Hachu, in ways that you may not yet understand or contemplate.

Quote
(which you can compare to your child support woes all you want, but I'm not having it)


That's a different issue ... for a different thread. However, no one here simply compares woes on a measuring scale ... we just articulate them loud and clear, and discuss them in a rational educated fashion.

PROFOUND1

Quote
The problem here is

this is a result of backlash, created by men, law, and other women,

from before not believing, championing, or blaming

a woman that said she was raped

unless she was lilly white, and the accused had a black face

that was a cause for action, alright


No this is a democratic perspective borne of "democratic exultation" -- something to which in your seemingly skewed perception of today's society seem's to indulge a conspiracy against black female's --- OMG are you for real!
eminists ...

"Feminists ought to get a good whipping. Were woman to 'unsex' themselves by claiming equality with men, they would become the most hateful, heathen and disgusting of beings, and would surely perish without male protection."

Queen Victoria 1870

PROFOUND1

Quote
The abuse of the word Rape, and the laws affecting such, can only be changed by men.


The sickening definition of "rape"can only be changed by contradictory women.

Quote
The problem here is

this is a result of backlash, created by men, law, and other women,

from before not believing, championing, or blaming

a woman that said she was raped

unless she was lilly white, and the accused had a black face

that was a cause for action, alright!


PROFOUND1 said:

God are you for real presenting such benile vacuous bullshit as a admirable subject.

PROFOUND1 said:

Indeed I will say  stop using your gender and perceived ethnic slight's as a "DEFAULT" trojan horse into all perceived slight's and it's benefit's, I derive from Irish extraction however I don't expect/want everyone to apoligise to me for the potato famine.



 [/quote]I see no dumbing down of the definition of rape, only the abuse of such.
Quote


PROFOUND1: from the perspective of it's constrictive feminist misandric interpretation!



The whole, " No, yes, NO!, yes, no yes oh yes, no no.....he raped me, I said no." No means No thing.

Again, Maatkare doesn't believe its been dumbed down, as in definition, but abused.
Quote


Abused, redefined by a  ever brainwashed engaging manipulative body of engaging "drone's."






Again, Maatkare doesn't believe its been dumbed down, as in definition, but abused.

once again will ask, explain. Show me instances where the definition has become such as you said.




Research Shows False Accusations
of Rape Common
By Marc Angelucci and Glenn Sacks


Despite its many painful and unseemly aspects, the Kobe Bryant rape case and the media storm surrounding it have drawn attention to a severely neglected problem: false rape accusations.

In her recent Daily Journal column, high profile feminist professor Wendy Murphy dismisses the problem of false accusations as an "ugly myth," and calls for "boiling rage" activism to address what she perceives as the anti-woman bias of the criminal justice system. Like many victims' advocates, Murphy cannot seem to fathom the possibility that Bryant could be innocent. However, research shows that false allegations of rape are frighteningly common.

According to a nine-year study conducted by former Purdue sociologist Eugene J. Kanin, in over 40 percent of the cases reviewed, the complainants eventually admitted that no rape had occurred (Archives of Sexual Behavior, Vol. 23, No. 1, 1994). Kanin also studied rape allegations in two large Midwestern universities and found that 50 percent of the allegations were recanted by the accuser.

Kanin found that most of the false accusers were motivated by a need for an alibi or a desire for revenge. Kanin was once well known and lauded by the feminist movement for his groundbreaking research on male sexual aggression. His studies on false rape accusations, however, received very little attention.

Kanin's findings are hardly unique. In 1985 the Air Force conducted a study of 556 rape accusations. Over one quarter of the accusers admitted, either just before they took a lie detector test of after they had failed it, that no rape occurred. A further investigation by independent reviewers found that 60 percent of the original rape allegations were false.

The most common reasons the women gave for falsely accusing rape were "spite or revenge," and to compensate for feelings of guilt or shame (Forensic Science Digest, vol. 11. no. 4, December 1985).

A Washington Post investigation of rape reports in seven Virginia and Maryland counties in 1990 and 1991 found that nearly one in four were unfounded. When contacted by the Post, many of the alleged victims admitted that they had lied.

It is true, of course, that not every accuser who recants had accused falsely. But it is also true that some who do not recant were not telling the truth.

According to a 1996 Department of Justice Report, of the roughly 10,000 sexual assault cases analyzed with DNA evidence over the previous seven years, 2,000 excluded the primary suspect, and another 2,000 were inconclusive. The report notes that these figures mirror an informal National Institute of Justice survey of private laboratories, and suggests that there exists "some strong, underlying systemic problems that generate erroneous accusations and convictions."

That false allegations are a major problem has been confirmed by several prominent prosecutors, including Linda Fairstein, who heads the New York County District Attorney's Sex Crimes Unit. Fairstein, the author of Sexual Violence: Our War Against Rape, says, "there are about 4,000 reports of rape each year in Manhattan. Of these, about half simply did not happen."

Craig Silverman, a former Colorado prosecutor known for his zealous prosecution of rapists during his 16-year career, says that false rape accusations occur with "scary frequency." As a regular commentator on the Bryant trial for Denver's ABC affiliate, Silverman noted that "any honest veteran sex assault investigator will tell you that rape is one of the most falsely reported crimes." According to Silverman, a Denver sex-assault unit commander estimates that nearly half of all reported rape claims are false.

The media has largely ignored these studies and experts and has instead promoted the notion that only 2% of rape allegations are false. This figure was made famous by feminist Susan Brownmiller in her 1975 book Against Our Will: Men, Women and Rape. Brownmiller was relaying the alleged comments of a New York judge concerning the rate of false rape accusations in a New York City police precinct in 1974.

A 1997 Columbia Journalism Review analysis of rape statistics noted that the 2% statistic is often falsely attributed to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and has no clear and credible study to support it. The FBI's statistic for "unfounded" rape accusations is 9%, but this definition only includes cases where the accuser recants or the evidence contradicts her story. Instances where the case is dismissed for lack of evidence are not included in the "unfounded" category. Brownmiller's credibility can be assessed by her assertion in Against Our Will that rape is "nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear."

Murphy also contends that the criminal justice system is stacked against women, and that the law reform initiatives promoted during the past three decades have "failed to make a bit of difference in the justice system's handling of rape cases." In reality, feminist advocacy and the now ubiquitous rape-shield laws have made an enormous difference in the way the system treats rape cases.

Some of these changes have been fair, and have led to greater protections for rape victims. However, others have made it more difficult for men to defend themselves, with at times horrifying consequences for the accused.

For example, in December, the Arkansas Supreme Court denied an appeal by Ralph Taylor, who is serving a 13-year sentence for rape. The court held that evidence of the victim's alleged prior false allegations of rape was inadmissible because it was considered sexual conduct within the meaning of the state's rape shield statute. In that case, the defense proffered the testimony of two friends of the alleged victim, both of whom claimed that she had previously falsely accused another man of raping her. The court added that admitting such evidence could "inflame the jury."

In her book Ceasefire: Why Women and Men Must Join Forces to Achieve True Equality, Boston Globe columnist Cathy Young details numerous questionable rulings in which potentially innocent men were prevented from properly defending themselves by the rape shield laws which Murphy endorses.

One of these cases concerns an 18 year-old Wisconsin boy named Charles Steadman, who in 1993 was sentenced to eight years in prison for allegedly raping an older woman. Steadman was prohibited from revealing that his accuser was currently facing criminal charges of having sex with minors, and thus had an excellent reason to claim that the sex with Steadman was not consensual. Such evidence was deemed related to his accuser's sexual history and thus inadmissible.

In 1997, sportscaster Marv Albert was accused of assault and battery during a sexual encounter with a woman with whom he had had a 10-year sexual relationship. Albert sought to introduce evidence that his accuser, who had been in a mental hospital six weeks before the alleged assault, had previously made false accusations against men who had left her, as Albert, who was engaged to be married, was planning to do. Albert's offer of proof was denied, compromising his ability to defend himself. Facing a possible life sentence, he chose to plead guilty to misdemeanor assault.

Murphy's dogged attacks on Ruckriegle as a veritable "advocate for the accused" are also without foundation. Far from being a black robed patriarch in league with the defendant, Ruckriegle's rulings were reasonable and, if anything, minimalist. It is not the rulings but the reaction to them by victims' advocates and the media which are worrisome.

For example, Ruckriegle granted a defense motion that Bryant's accuser would not be referred to as "the victim" in court. Such labeling, as opposed to "alleged victim" or "accuser," undermines the presumption of innocence. However, this motion was hotly contested by both the prosecution and by victims' rights organizations, which filed amicus briefs and complained that Ruckriegle's decision created an anti-woman double-standard.

Ruckriegle also allowed Bryant to introduce evidence that his accuser had had other sexual encounters in the 72 hours before her medical examination for the alleged assault. Bryant's defense team contended that the microscopic vaginal injuries the prosecution claimed were suffered in the alleged assault could instead have been the product of various consensual sexual encounters.

Media commentators labeled the 72 hour decision a "bombshell for prosecutors" that "threatens all women," and likened Ruckriegle to a man who has "tiptoed into a minefield."

Murphy is correct that rape is a horrible crime. But false accusations of rape are every bit as horrible. They are a form of psychological rape that can emotionally, socially, and economically destroy a person even if there is no conviction, especially for those of less fame and fortune than Bryant. The stigma attaches to the falsely accused for life. Few believe them and few care. Prosecutors systematically refuse to prosecute the perpetrators. And victims' advocates like Murphy refuse to see falsely accused men as victims, and instead work to minimize and conceal the problem.
This column first appeared in the Los Angeles Daily Journal and San Francisco Daily Journal (9/15/04).
Marc E. Angelucci is a public interest attorney in Los Angeles and is the president of the Los Angeles Chapter of the National Coalition of Free Men.
Glenn Sacks is a men's and fathers' issues columnist and a nationally-syndicated radio talk show host. His columns have appeared in dozens of America's largest newspapers.
Glenn can be reached via his website at www.GlennSacks.com or via email at [email protected].    

Research Shows False Accusations
of Rape Common
By Marc Angelucci and Glenn Sacks


Despite its many painful and unseemly aspects, the Kobe Bryant rape case and the media storm surrounding it have drawn attention to a severely neglected problem: false rape accusations.

In her recent Daily Journal column, high profile feminist professor Wendy Murphy dismisses the problem of false accusations as an "ugly myth," and calls for "boiling rage" activism to address what she perceives as the anti-woman bias of the criminal justice system. Like many victims' advocates, Murphy cannot seem to fathom the possibility that Bryant could be innocent. However, research shows that false allegations of rape are frighteningly common.

According to a nine-year study conducted by former Purdue sociologist Eugene J. Kanin, in over 40 percent of the cases reviewed, the complainants eventually admitted that no rape had occurred (Archives of Sexual Behavior, Vol. 23, No. 1, 1994). Kanin also studied rape allegations in two large Midwestern universities and found that 50 percent of the allegations were recanted by the accuser.

Kanin found that most of the false accusers were motivated by a need for an alibi or a desire for revenge. Kanin was once well known and lauded by the feminist movement for his groundbreaking research on male sexual aggression. His studies on false rape accusations, however, received very little attention.

Kanin's findings are hardly unique. In 1985 the Air Force conducted a study of 556 rape accusations. Over one quarter of the accusers admitted, either just before they took a lie detector test of after they had failed it, that no rape occurred. A further investigation by independent reviewers found that 60 percent of the original rape allegations were false.

The most common reasons the women gave for falsely accusing rape were "spite or revenge," and to compensate for feelings of guilt or shame (Forensic Science Digest, vol. 11. no. 4, December 1985).

A Washington Post investigation of rape reports in seven Virginia and Maryland counties in 1990 and 1991 found that nearly one in four were unfounded. When contacted by the Post, many of the alleged victims admitted that they had lied.

It is true, of course, that not every accuser who recants had accused falsely. But it is also true that some who do not recant were not telling the truth.

According to a 1996 Department of Justice Report, of the roughly 10,000 sexual assault cases analyzed with DNA evidence over the previous seven years, 2,000 excluded the primary suspect, and another 2,000 were inconclusive. The report notes that these figures mirror an informal National Institute of Justice survey of private laboratories, and suggests that there exists "some strong, underlying systemic problems that generate erroneous accusations and convictions."

That false allegations are a major problem has been confirmed by several prominent prosecutors, including Linda Fairstein, who heads the New York County District Attorney's Sex Crimes Unit. Fairstein, the author of Sexual Violence: Our War Against Rape, says, "there are about 4,000 reports of rape each year in Manhattan. Of these, about half simply did not happen."

Craig Silverman, a former Colorado prosecutor known for his zealous prosecution of rapists during his 16-year career, says that false rape accusations occur with "scary frequency." As a regular commentator on the Bryant trial for Denver's ABC affiliate, Silverman noted that "any honest veteran sex assault investigator will tell you that rape is one of the most falsely reported crimes." According to Silverman, a Denver sex-assault unit commander estimates that nearly half of all reported rape claims are false.

The media has largely ignored these studies and experts and has instead promoted the notion that only 2% of rape allegations are false. This figure was made famous by feminist Susan Brownmiller in her 1975 book Against Our Will: Men, Women and Rape. Brownmiller was relaying the alleged comments of a New York judge concerning the rate of false rape accusations in a New York City police precinct in 1974.

A 1997 Columbia Journalism Review analysis of rape statistics noted that the 2% statistic is often falsely attributed to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and has no clear and credible study to support it. The FBI's statistic for "unfounded" rape accusations is 9%, but this definition only includes cases where the accuser recants or the evidence contradicts her story. Instances where the case is dismissed for lack of evidence are not included in the "unfounded" category. Brownmiller's credibility can be assessed by her assertion in Against Our Will that rape is "nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear."

Murphy also contends that the criminal justice system is stacked against women, and that the law reform initiatives promoted during the past three decades have "failed to make a bit of difference in the justice system's handling of rape cases." In reality, feminist advocacy and the now ubiquitous rape-shield laws have made an enormous difference in the way the system treats rape cases.

Some of these changes have been fair, and have led to greater protections for rape victims. However, others have made it more difficult for men to defend themselves, with at times horrifying consequences for the accused.

For example, in December, the Arkansas Supreme Court denied an appeal by Ralph Taylor, who is serving a 13-year sentence for rape. The court held that evidence of the victim's alleged prior false allegations of rape was inadmissible because it was considered sexual conduct within the meaning of the state's rape shield statute. In that case, the defense proffered the testimony of two friends of the alleged victim, both of whom claimed that she had previously falsely accused another man of raping her. The court added that admitting such evidence could "inflame the jury."

In her book Ceasefire: Why Women and Men Must Join Forces to Achieve True Equality, Boston Globe columnist Cathy Young details numerous questionable rulings in which potentially innocent men were prevented from properly defending themselves by the rape shield laws which Murphy endorses.

One of these cases concerns an 18 year-old Wisconsin boy named Charles Steadman, who in 1993 was sentenced to eight years in prison for allegedly raping an older woman. Steadman was prohibited from revealing that his accuser was currently facing criminal charges of having sex with minors, and thus had an excellent reason to claim that the sex with Steadman was not consensual. Such evidence was deemed related to his accuser's sexual history and thus inadmissible.

In 1997, sportscaster Marv Albert was accused of assault and battery during a sexual encounter with a woman with whom he had had a 10-year sexual relationship. Albert sought to introduce evidence that his accuser, who had been in a mental hospital six weeks before the alleged assault, had previously made false accusations against men who had left her, as Albert, who was engaged to be married, was planning to do. Albert's offer of proof was denied, compromising his ability to defend himself. Facing a possible life sentence, he chose to plead guilty to misdemeanor assault.

Murphy's dogged attacks on Ruckriegle as a veritable "advocate for the accused" are also without foundation. Far from being a black robed patriarch in league with the defendant, Ruckriegle's rulings were reasonable and, if anything, minimalist. It is not the rulings but the reaction to them by victims' advocates and the media which are worrisome.

For example, Ruckriegle granted a defense motion that Bryant's accuser would not be referred to as "the victim" in court. Such labeling, as opposed to "alleged victim" or "accuser," undermines the presumption of innocence. However, this motion was hotly contested by both the prosecution and by victims' rights organizations, which filed amicus briefs and complained that Ruckriegle's decision created an anti-woman double-standard.

Ruckriegle also allowed Bryant to introduce evidence that his accuser had had other sexual encounters in the 72 hours before her medical examination for the alleged assault. Bryant's defense team contended that the microscopic vaginal injuries the prosecution claimed were suffered in the alleged assault could instead have been the product of various consensual sexual encounters.

Media commentators labeled the 72 hour decision a "bombshell for prosecutors" that "threatens all women," and likened Ruckriegle to a man who has "tiptoed into a minefield."

Murphy is correct that rape is a horrible crime. But false accusations of rape are every bit as horrible. They are a form of psychological rape that can emotionally, socially, and economically destroy a person even if there is no conviction, especially for those of less fame and fortune than Bryant. The stigma attaches to the falsely accused for life. Few believe them and few care. Prosecutors systematically refuse to prosecute the perpetrators. And victims' advocates like Murphy refuse to see falsely accused men as victims, and instead work to minimize and conceal the problem.
This column first appeared in the Los Angeles Daily Journal and San Francisco Daily Journal (9/15/04).
Marc E. Angelucci is a public interest attorney in Los Angeles and is the president of the Los Angeles Chapter of the National Coalition of Free Men.
Glenn Sacks is a men's and fathers' issues columnist and a nationally-syndicated radio talk show host. His columns have appeared in dozens of America's largest newspapers.
Glenn can be reached via his website at www.GlennSacks.com or via email at [email protected].    
[/quote]
eminists ...

"Feminists ought to get a good whipping. Were woman to 'unsex' themselves by claiming equality with men, they would become the most hateful, heathen and disgusting of beings, and would surely perish without male protection."

Queen Victoria 1870

PROFOUND1

Quote
Rape is the ultimate offense of a man imposing his strength and sexual opinion on women.



False Rape is the ultimate offense of a woman imposing her strength and sexual opinion on men.
eminists ...

"Feminists ought to get a good whipping. Were woman to 'unsex' themselves by claiming equality with men, they would become the most hateful, heathen and disgusting of beings, and would surely perish without male protection."

Queen Victoria 1870

PROFOUND1

Quote
This one believes in the back of every woman's mind, at some point, in their lives, there is a question," what if I/my sister/daughter/mother was raped?" or maybe even, " Will I/my sister/daughter/mother be raped?"


This one believes in the back of every man's mind, at some point, in their lives, there is a question," what if I/my brother/son/father was raped?" or maybe even, " Will I/my brother/son/father be raped?"
eminists ...

"Feminists ought to get a good whipping. Were woman to 'unsex' themselves by claiming equality with men, they would become the most hateful, heathen and disgusting of beings, and would surely perish without male protection."

Queen Victoria 1870

LSBeene

Hachu,

I share with Kal and others a desire to discuss this rationally and hope and appreciate that you are asking questions.

First though I hope you notice the difference between the responses on a feminist board (like The Bisuit Queen) and here.

Now, before you go into "but, they were wounded by rape", I should tell you: I was falsely accused of that crime.

I was also wounded.  And wounded deeply.  I'm not a "victim", I'm a survivor.

You have mentioned that these women were wounded, and on that I can understand.  After my false accusation I was pretty "raw" too.

But feminists want rape victim/survivors to KEEP being in pain and rehashing it endlessly.  One must ask why?  FUNDING and POLITICAL CAPITAL.

Allow me to explain?

The more women in victim's programs the more #'s they can report.  Understand that this is like the DV industry where each visit, to each group, is often counted as "1 victim".  So if 1 woman is in 3 groups, and goes to 30 of each meeting ... the end of the year stats can say: "We had 90 instances where a woman came to our groups for help due to her trauma".  When that 90 is ONE woman.

Also, to further illustrate how feminists WANT women to "revisit their pain" and NEVER heal, let's consider a compare and contrast:

A woman is in a terrible car accident.  In this car accident she loses an arm, her husband dies, and one of her two children is also crushed to death.  While passing in and out she even SEEs all of this.

What is done for her?

Most likely she is given treatment, a treatment plan, and rehabilitated and put back into "normal" life as soon as possible to allow her to move on.

Sure, she's given therapy, but it's PURPOSE is to get her PAST her pain so she can move on.  (as a military member who has buddies returning from Iraq I can assure you we try to "acclimate" them to "normal thinking" as fast as possible - and they've seen some horrific shit!)

Sure, she's given physical therapy, but so that she can adjust and feel "normal" again. (as a military member I can assure you I don't consider amputees anything less than full people who are just "folks")

But, the POINT of all this care is to get her back to a normal life.

But feminists will tell a rape victim that she is a "victim for life", that she "needs to revisit her pain and explore it", and that she can never trust ANY men fully again.

(would the doctors tell the amputee widow to never go near a car again?)

I won't belabor the point, but as you can see feminist interest in this is about #'s and NOT healing.

I can answer any questions you like about how being falsely accused is not ANYTHING like you see presented on TV, certainly not like feminists present it, and has LIFE LONG implications even if you are cleared.

I hope you respond and will gladly reply.

Steven
'Watch our backs at home, we'll guard the wall over here. You can sleep safe tonight, we'll guard the door."

Isaiah 6:8
"Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"

Q

Quote from: "Hachu"
The problem here is

this is a result of backlash, created by men, law, and other women,

There can be no backlash unless there is something to react to.  So you admit the current system has a problem.  

Quote
from  before not believing, championing, or blaming
a woman that said she was raped


Actualy, no.  Rape was, is and has been a very serious crime.  What has changed of late is the burden of proof and the definitions.

That old idea of "guilty till proven innocent" is tricky when two people retire to a room together.  The old solution was to apply the same standard as to every other crime in the books.

Quote
unless she was lilly white, and the accused had a black face
that was a cause for action, alright!

Nice personal attack.  Imply all here are racist.

Quote
The abuse of the word Rape, and the laws affecting such, can only  be changed by men.

Please do tell me how, as women make up about 55% of the voting population.   The problem is that the definition has changed over the years.  Spousal rape wasn't even a crime at some points in history.

It is now.....do you really think this benifited the husband, or males in general?

Quote
women, as a whole aren't capable, because there are too many places on this damned earth
where woman/infant/children/teens/adults are being damaged
Quote


Well, um, no.  you mean like in Sudan, where the men are being slaughtered and the women are not (to such an extent)?  Please tell.

Either way, in the democratic world women hold the balance of political power - so please explain why they can't.

Quote
(which you can compare to your child support woes all you want, but I'm not having it)

Slaughter vs Slavery....sounds like a good debate for another day, but not relevent here.


Quote
for the simple fact of them being female

Please, support this fact.

Quote
And that can cloud our judgement, when it comes to issues creating fairness for men.

You mean your more concerned about fairness for your sisters then fairnes for all?
---

Side issue

Could you actualy punctuate your writing properly?  It'll make your points easier to debate, read and understand.

Just focus on standard english.  It'll make life easier for everyone.  We're forgiving of the odd spelling mistake and punctuation error, as long as the intent is there.

<Edit to correct quote code errors>

The Biscuit Queen

Hachu, thank you for giving me not one but two hijacked threads in two days.


Rape by definition should be sexual intercourse, anal or vaginal, with the penis, fingers or a foreign object  by use or threat of force with adults. In children no use or threat of force is necessary.

Sound right?

Well, now if alcohol is used, then it is considered rape if the girl changes her mind.

Now if she  changes her mind but only says "I have to get going" and he doesn't stop then it is rape.

If a 17 year old girl and a 16 year old boy have consensual sex it is considered rape-for the boy and he is arrested.

A squeeze of the breast or a copped feel of a butt is considered sexual assault and goes in statistics as rape.



Yes, the definition has been dumbed down. It has been dumbed down a lot. Some women will say "I was raped with his eyes" if a man looks too long. Rape has become almost meaningless because the word is so overused. I am sure THAT is helping women.

"The abuse of the word Rape, and the laws affecting such, can only be changed by men"

Are you high? Women have abused the word rape, women have pushed for the loosening of rape laws, only women can stop it.

women, as a whole aren't capable, because there are too many places on this damned earthwhere woman/infant/children/teens/adults are being damaged (which you can compare to your child support woes all you want, but I'm not having it) for the simple fact of them being female

What the hell is that supposed to mean? You trying to make it out worse by making more catagories? Give me a break.Infants, children and teens are not women. You cannot add them in to pad your numbers and create a larger victim base. This is how the rates are artifically padded to begin with

Women are the voting majority in the US. Women are safer than men in the US. Men are 3 times more likly to be a victim of a violent crime in the US. People do not treat women poorly in the US because they are female. Women are protected for being female and given privilages.



I am a woman, so don't you dare tell me I can't understand because I am a man.  I do not live in fear of being raped. I do not fear for my mother or sisters. Why? Because it just does not happen as often as they say. Also, the women who are most at risk are women in inner cities and  women with questionable lifestyles. They are 30 times more likely to be raped. Since I live out in the middle of nowhere, and do not go out alone at night, or go to bars at night, or otherwise put myself in situations where I am at greater risk, I really don't worry about it.

Do those women ask for it? Not really. However there are situations in which people in general are not safe, and that is when violent crime, including rape, is more likely to happen. If a woman chooses to go out in the city alone at night, she is more likely to get raped. If a man goes to Harlem in the middle of the night with a nice suit on he is more likly to get assaulted. Did either choose to get assaulted? No. But did they increase their risk factors by being there? Yes.



The point of this thread, thank you for asking, was that because these women could not get over the details of the crime, they could not have a discussion about occurance rates. You have just done the same DAMN THING. You have hijacked this thread and turned it into oh poor women evil men just cannot understand rape is too horrible to be able to talk about unless we are sharing or blaming men. It is all the fault of evil men, they oppress us and have for years, and of course they will never understand.

Well piss off. Start your own damn thread if you want to debate the details.
he Biscuit Queen
www.thebiscuitqueen.blogspot.com

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.

Hachu

Quote from: "PROFOUND1"

No this is a democratic perspective borne of "democratic exultation" -- something to which in your seemingly skewed perception of today's society seem's to indulge a conspiracy against black female's --- OMG are you for real!


Please show,quote,
I,me

showing any instances,examples, complaints

hidden or un

where there is say so of some conspiracy against black women?

Please

Other wise don't *explicitive* put words in my mouth, I hate that more than anything...

Please..

Captain Stubing

Biscuit Queen,

The few women out there that are like you is the only reason that I am still willing to put my neck on the line and risk physical injury. Back in 1987 we were on our way home from Myrtle Beach, S.C. and saw a man and woman in a car. Something seemed wrong. She seemed to be struggling. We went to get help. In the early 90's, we saw a guy beating a girl. My buddy and I put a stop to it. I was, and still am, a big muscular guy. He pulled a 9mm on me. I narrowly avoided being shot. The girl went back to the beater the next day. Another time in the late 90's, I intervened to stop a beating and risked serious injury.

I have more courage than ability and I find it hard not to intervene when a victim is being hurt. In the past decade, I slowly decided not to intervene unless I know the person. I am sick of risking death or serious injury for a "victim" who may hate my gender or at the least is apathetic to my gender's suffering.

Women like you remind me of why I almost instinctively stop to help. I am so outraged, offended, and just sickened by the attitude that so many women have towards men. Men have their faults and some of the men are pigs. Most men are decent and do so much for the women in their lives.

In any event, thank the dear lord that there is still a minority of women who are kind and fair. It doesn't take much brains to realize how badly a falsely accused man suffers. The fact that so many feminists don't care about innocent men rotting in prison like caged animals exposes those feminists for the feminazi pigs that they are.

The fact that many false accusers are on medication or have been in mental hospitals seems to mean nothing to the pigs that want to imprison men on an accuser's words alone. Basic intelligence reveals that humans will often seek revenge if slighted. A man breaking up with a female is cause for certain females to seek revenge by false rape accusations. My God, what a science fiction horror show our rape laws are becoming.

Biscuit Queen, thank you, thank you, thank you. Women like you are the reason why so many men work 80 hours a week and go off to die in wars. Women like you are why decent men delight in making, or trying to make women, happy.

I mentioned my niece. She is such a delight. She's 12. I worry that these scum will corrupt her and turn her into a selfish sourpuss. She is a joy. I took her to see ET a few years ago. Out of the blue, she asked me if I wanted kids. Where did that come from? She is so smart and kind. I couldn't tell her that I'd love to have kids with a DECENT woman who was willing to give me as much as I gave her. I couldn't tell her that all my ex-girlfriends had been shallow and selfish. Instead, I prayed that she would stay kind and that she'd understand that she will get from her future boyfriends only as much as she gives.

When I think of my niece, I can assure you that I want tough rape laws and I want rapists castrated. But I would also be heartbroken if my niece falsely accused a man of raping her.

Again, thank you Biscuit Queen and any other women who are fair to men and who don't hate men. You give us a beacon of hope that one day the tide will turn and decent men and women can enjoy each other as nature intended.

The Biscuit Queen

Boy did you just brighten my day.  :D

I just spent the last four days getting verbally beat up and having a hell of a flu. It is really nice to get some good feedback.

Thanks.   Jen
he Biscuit Queen
www.thebiscuitqueen.blogspot.com

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.

bluegrass

One thing I could never understand in discussions of rape (well, actually I guess I do understand) are all the caveats offered up when comparing men and women.

I'm specifically referring to prison rape here.  Take a look at Ampersand's male privelege checklist.  

"If I'm a teen or adult, and if I can stay out of prison, my odds of being raped are so low as to be negligible"

Yeah OK so what if you aren't a teen or adult and haven't stayed out of prison?  Are you negligible then too?  And think for a moment of the definition of the term "negligible."

Prison rape is so astoundingly approved of by our culture, society and civilization that it is easily considered institutionalized.  It's so accepted and approved of that it is casually joked about -- even in mixed company!

So on the one hand we have one form that is found so horrible that it is one of the worst crimes in our society and for the other gender a state sanctioned form of punishment.  So who's devalued here?  

I guess I'm not quite following it.
"To such females, womanhood is more sacrosanct by a thousand times than the Virgin Mary to popes--and motherhood, that degree raised to astronomic power. They have eaten the legend about themselves and believe it; they live it; they require fealty of us all." -- Philip Wylie, Generation of Vipers

HarryPawedHer

Quote from: "Hachu"

And that can cloud our judgement, when it comes to issues creating fairness for men.


Which is, of course, inexcusable.

Hachu

Quote from: "LSBeene"
Hachu,

I share with Kal and others a desire to discuss this rationally and hope and appreciate that you are asking questions.

First though I hope you notice the difference between the responses on a feminist board (like The Bisuit Queen) and here.

Now, before you go into "but, they were wounded by rape", I should tell you: I was falsely accused of that crime.

I was also wounded.  And wounded deeply.  I'm not a "victim", I'm a survivor.


A human being, male, female, young, old or otherwise

whom is sujected to false witness upon them...in any form, rape or no

nevermind about actual convicted, signed and sealed, false accused alone.

Has been done, the greatest injustice,

This one, whoes own father (now, one she doesn't particularly respect), was accused falsley, or rather exaggeratively, of things which he did not do, and sent to Jail.
And a child to see a grown man cry at his hopelessness, was more than Maatkare could bear.

And if she ever sees such a low being of  a woman again,

She might be inclined to break her face.

So don't think this one does not know of what you say, she does, has for many years

She has told her husband, " Don't touch your female students, don't comment on their nail polish, don't even smile at them, even you have to show them how to swing a racquet, point, don't touch them. Never get caught alone with them. " and so on

Because Maatkare knows

EVEN if you a cleared, with no doubt at all

People will still look at you, " I bet he did it.."


Quote from: "LSBeene"
You have mentioned that these women were wounded, and on that I can understand.  After my false accusation I was pretty "raw" too.


As you have every right to be/do so. Maatkare takes nothing away from that. But because you are allowed to have feelings so are not those with a vagina? Or is the infection of radical feminism( and oh do I make a distinction between feminism and radical faminis,) somehow diminish it?

Quote
But feminists want rape victim/survivors to KEEP being in pain and rehashing it endlessly.  One must ask why?  FUNDING and POLITICAL CAPITAL.

Allow me to explain?

The more women in victim's programs the more #'s they can report.  Understand that this is like the DV industry where each visit, to each group, is often counted as "1 victim".  So if 1 woman is in 3 groups, and goes to 30 of each meeting ... the end of the year stats can say: "We had 90 instances where a woman came to our groups for help due to her trauma".  When that 90 is ONE woman.

Also, to further illustrate how feminists WANT women to "revisit their pain" and NEVER heal, let's consider a compare and contrast:

A woman is in a terrible car accident.  In this car accident she loses an arm, her husband dies, and one of her two children is also crushed to death.  While passing in and out she even SEEs all of this.

What is done for her?

Most likely she is given treatment, a treatment plan, and rehabilitated and put back into "normal" life as soon as possible to allow her to move on.

Sure, she's given therapy, but it's PURPOSE is to get her PAST her pain so she can move on.  (as a military member who has buddies returning from Iraq I can assure you we try to "acclimate" them to "normal thinking" as fast as possible - and they've seen some horrific shit!)

Sure, she's given physical therapy, but so that she can adjust and feel "normal" again. (as a military member I can assure you I don't consider amputees anything less than full people who are just "folks")

But, the POINT of all this care is to get her back to a normal life.

But feminists will tell a rape victim that she is a "victim for life", that she "needs to revisit her pain and explore it", and that she can never trust ANY men fully again.


Maatkare understands what you are saying,
in totality

But she  also knows that even without feminist and rape, its hard for people to

just

get over

it.

Why, because she has said, " STOP BEING SUCKING A WIMP, BE A MAN, MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE ABUSED BY THEIR PARENTS AS CHILDREN,GET THE FUCK OVER IT, I'M SORRY YOUR TEACHER DIDN"T BELIEVE YOU WHEN YOU TOLD THEM."

and then feeling like shiat. But knowing she says these things, because deep down she doesn't think men are allowed to hurt and feel and its unmanly.

Because of things she has hard time

Just
GETTING
over.

So maybe there is a conspiracy by so said Feminist, to create rape fear, so they can get more funding for whatever...or something. Or are you saying they are using it to get rich? I'm not quite clear on that.

But this one feels she has no right, truly, even if she says it in a bout of lunacy, to tell someone they can't feel they way they feel about something.




(would the doctors tell the amputee widow to never go near a car again?)

I won't belabor the point, but as you can see feminist interest in this is about #'s and NOT healing.

I can answer any questions you like about how being falsely accused is not ANYTHING like you see presented on TV, certainly not like feminists present it, and has LIFE LONG implications even if you are cleared.

I hope you respond and will gladly reply.

Steven[/quote][/quote]

HarryPawedHer

Quote from: "Hachu"
Maatkare takes nothing away from that. But because you are allowed to have feelings so are not those with a vagina? Or is the infection of radical feminism( and oh do I make a distinction between feminism and radical faminis,) somehow diminish it?


It is our responsibility as human beings to cope with our feelings constructively, which I do not see feminism doing.

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