The Underground Railroad

Started by richard ford, Mar 02, 2005, 10:29 PM

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richard ford

This is a new project of mine. I do not have much time so I will describe it quickly.

A slave is someone who never sees the fruits of his labour.

A slave is someone who may be struck and not defend himself.

A slave is someone with no right to a family, and who may be deprived of his children.


By these definitions married men are indeed slaves. Black slaves escaped from this situation by leaving the slave states via the Underground Railroad.

We, too can do the same.

This year I will visit Thailand to investigate. A westen man is still faced with descrimination there but the women need your money far more than they do here. This is not a recipie for exploitation but equality because your Thai woman will try to strengthen your relationship with your child even if she is no longer so keen on you.

This means that you will see your child grow up even if you spend part of the time in the west.

But that is not all..you will also...

1) Pay little or no tax (fewer PC projects financed.)

2) Save money on living expences.

3) Contribute to world peace. Poorer nations hate rich world arrogance. We tend to assume a sort of phony moral superiority because of our wealth and power.

By living in this way you are admiting that the west does not have all the answers. They will love you for it.

kal147

Quote
This year I will visit Thailand to investigate. A westen man is still faced with descrimination there but the women need your money far more than they do here.


Are you going ther for vacation or to live .... do your research first!

contrarymary

I agree that these poor women need money far more than I, because I'm stinkin' rolling in money.   :roll:

Tell you what - bring my ex with you. Being as he has all MY money, I will feel that I've done my part.
quot;I can resist anything but temptation."

 Oscar Wilde

richard ford

CM,

My point was not that western women are all rich (authough a Thai would think you are). My point is that it in a Thai womans interest to maintain some sort of relation between her man and her child.... the stronger this relationship, the safer she feels.

In the west the opposite situation is found. Here the courts reward drama. The more dramatic the breakup the more money she gets.

One system rewards good behaviour, the other bad. Since I would rather be treated with decency I will try the east.

This does not imply that westen women are all bad. In fact I am surprised they behave as well as they do considering the incentives to violence and fraud in family law.

Galt

Quote from: "contrarymary"
Tell you what - bring my ex with you. Being as he has all MY money, ...


And then it gets down to the definition of what "your" money is or was.

Usually in divorce courts, money before the marriage or inheritances still belongs to the person who had them.  This is slightly modified with men when he buys a "marital house" or the like with money he had before the marriage.  And then there is the problem of "tracking" etc.

But anyway ...

My experience is that when women claim that they were defrauded out of "their" money, it involves earnings of the man that he allegedly hid.  If you could prove that he hid assets, you would have gotten your claws on them.  If you can't prove it, he may not have actually had them (men initially try to woo women with claims of big bucks ...) AND even if he had money, I can't get all worked up about that.  If that's the case, he earned it, you didn't.

Morally, although not legally, it's his friggin' money.  I don't understand why men get married today, I really don't.

contrarymary

Richard,

Sorry I was snippy with you.  The problem is that, while I realize that some Western women have done horrible things to their husbands, and I am engaged to  a man who lost almost everything he had due to false allegations, as a divorced woman I let my first ex take momey we should have split (money he had hidden from me) so he could buy a house for his new wife; we also split custody of the children, and I always cooperated with him.  

I know I should be able to put all this aside and forget about my own personal experience, but it's not easy.  I'll try harder.
quot;I can resist anything but temptation."

 Oscar Wilde

LSBeene

Both CM and Richard have a good point.

The good thing about this site, IMO, is that while most here are MRAs we are not like the feminists who believe in Zero Sum or "winner take all".

Both men and women get screwed over.

Steven
'Watch our backs at home, we'll guard the wall over here. You can sleep safe tonight, we'll guard the door."

Isaiah 6:8
"Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"

InternetDevil

If I get an Internet job I am going back to Russia.

LST

I heard that russian feminists are trying to push for a law to enforce a 30% quota of women in the parliament.
This is similar to how the German Social Democratic Party and the Swedish Social Democratic Party do things, except the russian feminists want it to be mandatory for all political parties. (but i am not sure about this)
o pity for feminazis.

richard ford

CM,

Do not worry, I am not easely offended and I understand your past experiences. I suppose we are all experssing our past experiences through our politics. It is impossible to keep real life out of politics and I do not think we should try.

I am sorry you were screwed, it can be hard to forgive ourselves for being taken in by transparent schemes. It might be easier if they were super-sophisticated ones.

Best wishes.

Galt

<<This is similar to how the German Social Democratic Party and the Swedish Social Democratic Party do things, except the russian feminists want it to be mandatory for all political parties. (but i am not sure about this) >>

Actually (and I don't quite understand this either ...), it was the CDU party in Germany that called for a 30% quota for female politicians.

You have to understand that the CDU in Germany is roughly equivalent to the republicans in the United States, and the SPD (which is now in power, along with the Greens in a coalition - and doing untold damage to the country in the form of unemployment) is similar to the democratic party in the United States.  You can view Gerhard Schröder as a kind of Bill Clinton or (more likely) Jimmy Carter.

The only reason I can think of for the CDU party to even suggest that is chivalry.  But their next candidate for Chancellor (Bundeskanzler) may well be a woman anyway ... Angela Merkel.  And actually, she's pretty cool.  She studied physics in the old East Germany and thinks that feminism is crap.  She's a tough old broad (maybe a little like Maggi Thatcher, but without the monetary economics), and I would vote for her if I could.

I keep hearing rumors about Hilary Clinton running for the next election in the United States.  I never vote anymore, but I would if she ran - I would vote for the republican opposition.  Imagine the hell on earth of her being president, and now I see that she's trying to "soften" her views to become more acceptable.  But she still has her views.

bluegrass

Yeah that stuff about Hilary pops up periodically and many Dems are crazy about her.

It's funny over here right now Galt.  The Dems have been getting a sound thrashing amidst a struggling economy and a war with very divided support.  And they're still strategizing as though they have absolutely no idea why they've been losing.

Personally, I think it's a very basic problem of an awful lot of hard working and sacrificing individuals being constantly told that they're priveleged, sexist and racist and they just don't feel like supporing a candidate like that.

But lately I think the ultimate irony and slap in the face to both liberalism and feminism will be that the first female president will likely be a Republican.

I've been getting that feeling a lot lately.  If you watch the Democrat women, they are in fact the most political of the politicians around.  You can easily predict every single position they'll take and thing they'll say about it -- it all follows a fairly strict doctrinaire party line.  I mean, they make  Ken Starr and Newt Gingrich look like independents.

The Democratic men take their cues from political speak as do the Republican men, but lately to a lesser degree as a few of them are somewhat critical of Bush.

But it seems to me lately that the most concise and non-political leaders in the US right now are the Republican women.  Interesting.
"To such females, womanhood is more sacrosanct by a thousand times than the Virgin Mary to popes--and motherhood, that degree raised to astronomic power. They have eaten the legend about themselves and believe it; they live it; they require fealty of us all." -- Philip Wylie, Generation of Vipers

contrarymary

Quote
If you could prove that he hid assets, you would have gotten your claws on them


Oh, I didn't have to prove it.  He admitted it.  And I chose NOT to "get my claws" on it.  I let him have it.  In fact, I recall the end of that conversation as though it were yesterday.  I sighed, and said, "Oh, Jesus Christ, I don't want it.  I just want you to know I know about it."  It was, probably, the only time I confronted him with something about which he had deceived me.  Never once mentioned the girlfriends, or any of his myriad lies.  I just pretended they didn't exist.  

And if I thought THAT was the marriage from hell, there was another one waiting down the road for my gullible, naive, trusting self.  So perhaps it's not only men who get screwed over when they marry?

I know we could go around forever on this one, but the fact is that I paid all the bills with my wages and he, apparently, was hoarding "his" money.  I thought he had spent it all on drugs and record albums.  Oh, well.  

So what you are saying is that, even though we lived on mostly MY money, and he kept most of his, that I had no right to any of the money he hoarded merely because HE earned it?

I didn't want his bloody money.  And I didn't ask for it.  However, in retrospect, I really should have taken half and put it in a college fund for my children.    

He filed for divorce, and I chose to take no part in the proceedings.  I asked for nothing.  I assumed I would get half of the proceeds from our house, which was a run-down mess since I was the one responsible for it's upkeep, and I couldn't afford to fix it up, and I suck at home repair myself.  He assured me he would help take care of our children, and I chose to believe him.  He was honorable in that regard.  It was, perhaps, the first time in his life he ever came through on a promise.   I used the money to give my girls things they never had before while he was living with them, because he was too busy both hoarding and spending the money on drugs.  Things like some decent clothes, and even dance lessons.

Everyone told me I was certifiable, and that all I had to do was go to court and expose his affairs and drug habits, and voila!  All would be mine.  I couldn't, and wouldn't, do that.  For myriad reasons.  I suppose because, to me, self-respect is more important than money.  And I was not lily-white in that relationship either. I know the damage I myself caused.  So how am I going to stand before a judge and state my case when I know that I was just as culpable for the failure of the marriage?

It's really important to me not to be a hypocrite. Although, being human, I very often am.  But I never mean to be, and am open to hear about it when I am, so I can correct it.

I am so far from perfect it's actually rather funny.  But I do try hard.

I'm sorry to sound so angry.  I'm not, really.  And I wasn't really angry then.  It was what I'd come to expect from him.  I know men get screwed over big time in divorce courts, but can't you see it's not always the men?  Although no one screwed me over.  I made my decision, and lived with it.  It's just all this discussion about how women are always robbing men that makes me bring up my own divorce.

Anyway, it doesn't matter anymore.   I did what I thought was right, and since my material needs are rather modest, I made out okay after that.  I rented a small apartment.    Really, all I need is a clean, dry place to live. Having had little money when I was growing up, I have learned to be content with the basics.  

And now I have the most loving man in the world.   He really, truly is.

Rant over.  Time to go to work.
quot;I can resist anything but temptation."

 Oscar Wilde

contrarymary

PS

I'm not being very supportive here, am I?  I am really sorry.  This isn't supposed to be about me, so what do I do?  Rant and whine about myself.... :(

I suppose I'm not as "over" my divorces as I thought I was.

For the record, what I went through was a picnic compared to what T. went through.  And I'm supposed to be here to get support and advice about him.  

Sometimes I truly disappoint myself in ways even I never thought possible.  It's just that I lost all my friends when I was disfellowshipped as a Witness, and I'll never make any up here since everyone in the area thinks T. is a pedophile, and want nothing to do with him and, subsequently, with me.  Which is fine by me, because I'd rather spit on the persons who treated T. so badly after he was released from prison. OH, I know they are only human, but still.  

You can forget about "innocent until proven guilty" in this country.  At least, that's been our experience.

So I have no RL friends.  And one simply does not discuss this kind of thing with co-workers.  That's why I talk so much here.  There's no where else, and the ex-JW boards get a little tiresome after a while.  Esp. because THEY are all convinced there's a ped on every corner, and when I try to point out how irrational they are, I get shouted down.   When I had the audacity to state that I didn't see much evidence against Kobe, I was literally torn apart..... :cry:
quot;I can resist anything but temptation."

 Oscar Wilde

richard ford

Its OK CM.

I guess that it has never been 'about you'. Perhaps you have always supported other people and now you feel a little ashamed that you take care of your own pain? Perhaps women 'take it like a man' too.....

With your history you could have easely taken the easy way out and said 'all men are bastards'. This would have protected you against some of the confusion but would also have stopped you growing and learning. You are doing very well, believe it or not.

Best wishes


R Ford

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