To all the women...

Started by HarryPawedHer, Mar 06, 2005, 02:45 PM

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HarryPawedHer

...on this site, thank you!  This is hard for me to say because I loathe admitting that the Internet provides me with emtional support, but you have helped slowly restore my appreciation for womanhood.

Seriously, I was beginning to feel like women weren't good for anything but putting me down.  Sometimes I feel like a barometer to their success.  "Women reach their full potential when they surpass men," I catch myself thinking.

This board has served as the tangible proof I've always needed that women can present their perspectives and problems without the pity party, and more importantly, without resorting to unfair or jaded comparisons with men.

It's undeniable that women as a whole are better at some things than men, but you remind me that the strengths women have really can be used for positive, constructive, genuinely unselfish things.

Without further ado, here's to you:

For those of you that might be too "hardcore" for lollypops (drummer girl), you are more than welcome to come visciously rape me (drummer girl). :wink:

...repeatedly.



Just in case you're curious (or have a lot of time to kill), I'm here because I was raised in a very sexist family (the women firmly believe all men are pigs).  Example: There's a magnet on my grandmother's refrigerator that says, "Marriage is just proof that a woman can take a joke."  Because of this, I entered adulthood with an internal self-hatred that I can't even begin to describe (and had the self-image confusion that a schizophrenic would have), brainwashed by people that I thought I could trust.

Not only that, but my ability to empathize with women was nearly destroyed.  When I read about rape or domestic violence or the women in the middle east, I don't feel anything.  I'm numb.  I knew this was a bad thing, so I read a bunch of material about respecting women to try and train myself to be more compassionate.  What a tremendous mistake!  Talk about humiliating!  All this did was remind me that I'm such a bad man for being so insensitive.

Even as I write this, I have to stop and think long and hard about each paragraph because I've been taught to "suck it up" and "just get over it" for so long that the thoughts keep banishing themselves to my subconsciousness.  It's almost like losing your place in a mental book.

I understand that women deal with a lot of shit and they need the support they're being given--the dv shelters, the protection of rights, etc.  I try not to be resentful of it because if there hadn't been a need for it in the first place, it wouldn't be here.  But until I found this site, I didn't think anyone realized that it is next to impossible for a man to find this kind of support.

...even if it's a hug with an "I know how you feel."

There's no place to go for men who feel worthless in the shadow of women.

Damn I feel like a pussy for doing this behind a computer screen, but then again, that's what I am.  I went through childhood thinking men are supposed to be strong and courageous and other simplistic shit like that.  Well, here I am, a 5'9" 140lbs (in other words, not exactly buff), slow-witted coward.  Where do I belong?  I don't even excel at the stuff that men are expected to excel at, so essentially women are better than me at everything.  Horay!  Shit on me.

Then there's that god-awful "women are psychologically stronger" belief that makes me feel like a complete waste of sperm for even having these issues.

I avoid letting my feelings rear their ugly heads in person because I fear being used as an example of a classic wuss.  "Hey, here's a weakling!  See, you should respect women because men aren't all that strong.  Pfft!"

For any of you that read all of this, sorry.  I pity you, lol.  Nevertheless thanks.  I'll probably add more later (harrypawedher=sympathy whore) but I have to go pick up my dad from the mall (he's old and can't drive anymore).

Roy

HPH,

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For any of you that read all of this, sorry. I pity you, lol.


Well sir, I read the full post, and I'm not one bit feeling sorry for myself.

Your story ("confessional?") is exactly what Dr. E. has created this important space to welcome and honor.

Though you could be remotely interpreted as violating Rule No. 4.....

Nevermind that.

Every time a man tells his honest story, we all benefit.

Because feminism has decreed that we (men) shall not speak our truths without fear...

Thank you, sir.
It's a terrible thing ... living in fear." (Roy - hunted replicant. "Blade Runner.")

dr e

Harry - thanks for your courage to tell your story.  

We are living in a world that pays a great deal more attention to the stories of women in pain than to the stories of men.  Basically, a man's pain is taboo.  No one wants to touch it. Most people run.  It leaves us men with no place to go and a sense that no one gives a shit.  Your story is welcome here.  

I have often heard women say "He is so in touch with his feelings" and I have learned that this means that this man is in touch with her feelings.  It is a rarity for women to offer emotional support to a man.  As men, we need to learn to both be vulnerable around other men and to be supportive to other men.  Both of these skills help us to stand for ourselves and not be dependent upon women for our emotional needs.  The more we can stand on our own the more likely we will be able to have mature relationships with women.  Until then we are all too often at risk of  wanting to please and this stifles our progress.
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

Roy

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Dr. E. to HPH-- Your story is welcome here.


That's all I've been trying to say.... in previous rants.

Men's STORIES are the lifeblood of your vision, Dr. E.

Grammar be damned...
It's a terrible thing ... living in fear." (Roy - hunted replicant. "Blade Runner.")

LST

Ah... That sounds tough.
It's ok mate.

Quote

Then there's that god-awful "women are psychologically stronger" belief that makes me feel like a complete waste of sperm for even having these issues.

Eh... I never noticed this one.
o pity for feminazis.

contrarymary

Oh, Harry, I'm speechless.  


Okay,  upon reflection, I do have something to say,...

I used to feel much as you do.  I felt that, being a woman, I was a second class citizen.  Not worth nearly as much as a man.  I dabbled in pop feminism in the mid 70s, but that all changed when my mother died, and I was extremely vulnerable, looking for answers, and the Jehovah's Witnesses were there.

I hated what I read in the Bible about women, but I wanted to live forever in Paradise earth and see my mother again.  So I converted.  Funny the things one will swallow when one truly believes her eternal life is at stake.

At the Kingdom Hall, the superior position of men was stressed ad nauseam.  Women were basically permitted to do nothing in the congregation except clean, cook and knock on doors.  The scriptures in the Bible delineating the family arrangement with the man as head of household and the woman obeying him in every instance except when to obey him would break one of God's laws were constantly invoked.  I was married to a drug addict at the time, and that "headship" arrangement was quite unpalatable.  I cringed when we had "talks" about this subject.  I finally told God, "If you hate women so much, and think we're so weak and pathetic, why did you even create us?"

I was disfellowshipped from the congregation when I turned myself in for smoking.  I spent four miserable years just waiting to die at Armegeddon for being such a disgusting sinner.  Then I met T.  

Over the past two years, his respect, love and friendship has given me the foundation to boldly examine myself and my shortcomings and, more importantly, admit my GOOD POINTS.  I do have them.  And I don't hate myself for being an inferior woman.  

Strangely, one would think being on this board would re-awaken those feelings of shame of being a woman in me.  But it hasn't.  The men here are almost invariably respectful.

I'm a woman.  And that's okay.  I'm not a man.  I can't do what men do.  And that's okay too.

What I want to say is....

Harry, you have good points in ABUNDANCE.

I would like to write more, but I just got in from work and I am starving.

For the record, I have no problem with the man being the head of the  household.  BUT I will state that it's critical for a woman to marry a man whom she trusts, loves and respects.  I trust, love and respect T.  And I do look to him as the head of our little household.  Fortunately, we get along so well, so I've never really been tested as to whether or not I can truly go along with and support his decisions without pouting, arguing or otherwise being uncooperative.  

But the day will come.  I hope to prove myself worthy of his trust.

Harry, you have my most sincere affection.  PM me anytime.
quot;I can resist anything but temptation."

 Oscar Wilde

The Biscuit Queen

(((((Harry)))))



After debating side by side with you, while you may feel that way on the inside, that is not what I see on the outside. You are patient, passionate, fluent, generous, caring, and very couragous. I really couldn't give two shits what size you are, or what skills you possess, or what your family feels is important. I have gotten to know and respect you, for who you are. Faults, attributes, and all.

And you are just fine the way you are.

The word wuss to me is dangerous. It is a way to dismiss the complaints of another person, whether they are valid or not. Pain is not something which can be judged by another, physical or mental. Anyone who claims a person is a wuss is someone who can't be bothered to listen. So they can piss off.

You are very welcome, Harry.
he Biscuit Queen
www.thebiscuitqueen.blogspot.com

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.

Buddy-Rey

Harry, this board can be a wonderfully effective catharsis.  I'm guilty of "venting" a lot too, and I worry sometimes that all of my venting is seen as "male whining", but I'm getting more comfortable with expressing these things, and let me tell you, it's OK.  When you express things that are bothering you, you get it out of your system, and can begin to heal.  Everyone here is so supportive and so encouraging that I've finally reached the stage in my "de-programming" where I can actually say in public, to women as well as men, "Yes, men have legitimate grievances."  I couldn't have reached this stage without every single one of you gentlemen and ladies, and I love you all for it.

   And yes, the women here are some of the kindest and most understanding people I've ever known!  Without them, I too may have kept a skewed perspective on womanhood.  Now, because of them, my faith, not only in the female gender but humanity in general, has been restored.  Three cheers for all of you.  You make the world a saner, more inhabitable place...at least while I'm at my computer desk!  :wink:

becksbolero

Quote from: "contrarymary"
BUT I will state that it's critical for a woman to marry a man whom she trusts, loves and respects. I trust, love and respect T.


The Same could be said the other way around too. As in T. trusts, loves and respects me.

This has to happen in a solid relationship, be it with your Mom, Dad, Friend or Brother (Sister).

Mary, I for one am happy for you  that you found it. Got any pointers?
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

richard ford

I am touched with both of your posts.

Yes. Men are supposed to be 'strong' (ie, emotional punchbags) and not admit to their pain. This is something you hear from abusive women all of the time. They want men who will just take it and say 'I can take it!'

CM,

Your experience is very like that of a man. You have taken responsibility for a partner that is weaker than yourself, swallowed a lot of poisen about yourself and finaly got abused financialy.

Fortunately you survived because you were not supposed to 'be a man' about it. You can admit that you are in pain and this is good. Many man just push it down and down until they go completely numb. If you have ever seen 'Fight Club' you will know something of male depression.

I take my hat off for you both.

We have to remember that the bible was written in a time when women were held in very little regard. Is this Gods opinion too? You do not have to believe so.

Human beings can decide to treat the opposite sex with respect. We have free will.

realman

I haven't been on here for too long but I do agree the women who post here are several cuts above what one normally finds!

I think my biggest source of frustration on this forum is when I read one of the posts from you guys (err...girls!) and just kind of sigh...wishing that I could find a woman with the strength of character and head planted firmly on the shoulders that you possess...perhaps someday I will find her, the one who is free of feminist harping and MeMEMEE! attitudes, and truly stands on her own merit. A true woman...

At least the women here give me a glimmer of hope that there are few out there... :wink:

no2fembots

Harry, your story is a shining example of why I treat feminism and feminists of all stripes as evil and toxic.  No person should be raised is such a poisened environment, such as you describe.

Try to look at life from the inside out not the other way around, ok? In other words, your sense of self worth must be generated by YOU, and not received from OTHERS.  

Harry, I do not beleive for a single moment that God, or Nature, or whatever made a mistake with Men or Women.  There is no superior/inferior dichotomy at the fundamental level:  we are perfectly designed to compliment eachother.  Just because we are cursed to live in this most terrible of times does not invalidate my premise.  YOU are worthy of love, feeling good about yourself, and all the other good things that life has to offer!  Don't f**kin' forget it!

"No one can make you feel worthless unless you give them permission"
Eleanor Roosevelt.

Best regards, Harry and you take care of yourself, ok?

Dan
"We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give."  - Winston Churchill
                                                                                   
"Get Angry...Get Loud... GET UP off your KNEES!"

Alpha Male

Man, I can't even imagine your position. That's rough.
I'm a God fearin' man. Every time I hear a story like Mary's it make me want to cringe. It's so far away from what He intended for anybody. But this is the way I see it.
He knit you together in the womb. As such you are exactly what you are supposed to be. And he didn't make you to be any of those terrible things you are describing. He made you to be all male. Wild, free, dangerous. To take joy in everything around you and in everything you do. Regardless of whether it is a "manly" thing or not. Forget what others think. What do YOU think? Everyday is a gift. Everday I am a bit stronger. Everyday I am a bit wiser. Everyday I am a bit balder. (Wait, scratch that last one.) And everyday I am loved regardless of how bad I bugger it up on occasion.
Don't take your sense of worth from anybody else.
ies come in three types: Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics

HarryPawedHer

Quote from: "Alpha Male"
Every time I hear a story like Mary's it make me want to cringe.


Me too.  

contrarymary

I appreciate your kind thoughts, everyone, I truly do.  But things have worked out for the best for me.  We just have to get T. through this mess.   That won't be as easy.

BTW, my first ex went on to deeply regret not giving me half the money - because his second wife took everything he had when she divorced him.  He lost it all.  If he had given it to me, at least our children would have gotten it, and not some gold-digger who pretended to love him so she could obtain a nice house for herself.

I took no delight when his life fell apart like that.  In fact, I was really upset.    I wish I could find a nice companion for him, because I really don't want to see him lonely.
quot;I can resist anything but temptation."

 Oscar Wilde

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