Interview with author of 'Rantings of a Single Male'

Started by Mr Benn, Mar 20, 2005, 03:43 PM

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Alpha Male

So I ran this by my wife last night on our way to dancing. Her answers were nowhere near what I was expecting. Even though I was stunned at her comments, we had a riotous laugh discussing it. The conversation was all over the map but I'll try to distill it down.

a) She enjoys sex but doesn't necessarily need it to the extent I do as long as she has my attention/listening/interaction.

b) She'll initiate sex for the assurance it gives her knowing that she still has my interest. (She initiates almost as much as I do which left me with the impression her drive was almost as strong as my own. Live and learn.)

c) If there was no sex even though she had my full attention/interaction eventually she would initiate it for the physical satisfaction as well. And to know she was desirable.

d) When I initiate, she says there is this initial desire to be selfish ("I just want to sleep.") but that it is only there for a second. She has to push that aside (didn't like hearing that) because she loves me, she knows what's coming, and it's always worth it. (did like hearing that).

e) Just any male body will not kick her into gear however mine will. Not because I am the ultimate male specimen (  :( ) but because of the connection she associates with it.

f)In conjunction with the prior point, it is when I am involved in something she associates with our relationship that she tends to notice my body. Her example was watching the muscles in my arms and legs flex as I was rough-housing with the kids.

g) More than my body making her nipples stand up and take notice, my clear intent/focused attention is what invokes the electric nipple response. I am able to do this with a mere knowing look. (This is news to me. Apparently I have a smirk that clearly reveals lustful intent. I'll have to explore that later.)

h) It wasn't the bad boy persona nor was it the self-respect issue. She wouldn't have even given me a shot because I was the intimidating assistant instructor in her martial arts class who she thought was out of her league. It was the meddling females in the class (instructor's wife, the other instuctor who shared our studio, and another senior female student) giving her a nudge in my direction. Once her foot was in the door she was able to see what kind of person I was.

i) Last night as we were entering the dance studio a girl came out of the building. In big white letters across her ass was "BUBBAS" which I commented on. She didn't see it and didn't know what I was talking about so a lively discussion ensued about whether the girl's ass had brought my attention to the big white letters or the other way around. I said, "How could you not see that?" She replied, "I wasn't looking at her ass! But I'll tell you this", continuing our discussion about male vs. female differences, "had she intentionally been shaking that ass at you or trying to make you notice her cleavage, I would have seen it from a mile away."
ies come in three types: Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics

Galt

<<And to know she was desirable.>>

I think that's important to a lot of women.  Men want, and women want to be wanted*.


* This only applies to some women and some men, everyone is an individual, your mileage may vary, blah blah blah.

realman

"Just any male body will not kick her into gear however mine will. Not because I am the ultimate male specimen (  ) but because of the connection she associates with it. "

Somewhere back someplace in this thread I postulated that perhaps that is kinda how it actually works...that at least for many women, the attraction to the body comes AFTER the attraction to the person/personality. There does still seem to be a disparity between male interest level in the female's body, and the female's interest level in the male's body, even after that point though...

It is interesting too...alsmot seems like the women are saying they need us guys to show them we want them sexually in order for them to really want sex...which I think is another factor in why for us guys it feels like we have to "do stuff for her" and then she "rewards" us with sex...the old "gotta keep her happy if I'm gonna get any" mentality (which I am happy to "F$!k that" too...it's not worth making your entire life revolve around keeping her happy just to get some...if her happiness requires constant nagging and my constant compliance therewith,  I'm sure there's plenty of other guys out there who'd liek to throw one into her...). I also see it as leaving room to question her desire...if she doesn't make the first move very often, it leaves us feeling like as men we have to "convince" her to want us...not that she just plain does.


I think I'm not the only man who "wants", but feels it also helps us if we feel "wanted"...especially with all the other sh!t we take from women (i.e., complaints/nags/male-bashing). I do not think the desire to feel "wanted" is solely a woman thing, although it probably is stronger in women (which once again raises questions about a woman's self-esteem/security issues, as well as contributes to the sense we men often get that "it's all about HER").

The Biscuit Queen

I think one of the things that feminists complain about that is true to an extent, although not men's fault as they think, is that women put a huge amount of self esteem into her worth to a man or partner. Being wanted  or desired validates us feeling wantable or desirable, which kicks in the sex drive.

I think desire in the male physique is very much put in context of what his behavior is, and if you look at males of virtually every species, you will note they have, sometimes elaborate, 'mating dances' to attract the females. This is not something that is selfish in women, it is something biological in nature.

As far as now, in modern humans,  I think that life has become so compartmentalized that it is very difficult for women to allow themselves to have space to want sex. For most women children are the ultimate turn off. When the kids were little all I would have to hear is a hiccup and the mood was gone. Not just dimmed, but completely gone. Since I put the kids to bed, I am with them until 8:30 or 9. Unfortunately, I am exhausted by 10, and one hour really isn't enough for me to switch gears. I guess I need to take naps   :wink:  


Men want and women want to be wanted is true to an extent. However men want... to get off, so it is not like that is any more of a non-selfish end as being wanted in the first place. Both sides are being selfish. Of course with couples it is obviously more complicated than that, and both sides are giving and taking different things.


So AM, will your behavior change after your talk with your wife? Will hers? Could you ask her how she switches gears from the kids?
he Biscuit Queen
www.thebiscuitqueen.blogspot.com

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.

realman

"I think desire in the male physique is very much put in context of what his behavior is, and if you look at males of virtually every species, you will note they have, sometimes elaborate, 'mating dances' to attract the females. This is not something that is selfish in women, it is something biological in nature. "

This is probably true...but still the net result is men must perform a "mating dance" and women only have to show up for the big event...I would like to think that modern humans would not be so bound by this biological relic considering how many other things in modern life fly in the face of our historic biological roots. I guess what I'm trying to say is a man should no more have to perform a "mating dance" in order to get sex from a woman than a woman should have to get home from work and do all of the housework while her partner gets home from work, sits down, and watches TV. Seems to me like a case of women wanting whatever works for them in a given situation, even if it is hypocritical.

As for men being selfish in wnating to "get off"...I have yet to meet a woman who liked "getting off" any less than men do...so if a woman places demands on a man to "do stuff for her" (i.e., perform a "mating dance") or uses sex in any kind of manipulative reward/punishment system I would still consider that selfish.

Maybe if women couldn't have orgasms or just didn't really enjoy sex I could see the fairness in a  man having to "do stuff" in order to have a woman be sexually open to him...but such is hardly the case. Seems like modern women using the same victorian attitudes that in otehr circumstances they would reject (i.e., "women don't enjoy sex") to justify "me me me" and try to pull the wool over men's eyes.

I just see this as yet another example of women being hypocritical in order to get the best of both worlds...

The Biscuit Queen

We agree in part. I agree that when two people come together for mutual enjoyment then neither party should have to work any more than the other.

In nature, in most cases, the male gets instant gratification, spreads his seed, and leaves, the female may or may not get off (I don't know) but then has the pleasure/responsibility to raise the offspring. It seems to me pretty even since he does some work on the front end and gets what he wants, she does the work on the back end and also gets what she wants. You are right in that those species, including humans, where the father sticks around to raise his young, or in some cases is the only caretaker, that males being the ones responsible for initiating is off balance.

Of course in nature males have all the color and noise, since females cannot risk drawing attention to themselves (and the offspring)  due to predators.

I think many women have had numerous expiriences with men who have no interest in her pleasure. Sex is defined by the man's orgasm. If he comes, the sex is over, unless one wants to wait and try again. If she comes early he still continues until he is done. So since the man is the one who gets gratified virtually every time,  he is the one who needs to put forth initiative. I felt this way for years until I met a boy who actually cared how it was for me. After that I initiated as much as the men, if not more in some cases :D

Men do put forth initiative, but so do women in a way. A man simply dresses like usual, combs his hair, and walks out the door. A woman will spend hours getting ready to go out, in order to look attractive. Women spend a great deal of time on attracting a man, just not in front of him. So while it looks like he is doing all the work, she actually has done a great deal as well.

I agree completely that using sex manipulatively is wrong, and using it as a reward or punishment is also wrong. I agree that some women use sex to get the best of both worlds. But I also KNOW that there are a lot of either uneducated or simply unconcerned men who think that rubbing a girls back while he gets off in two minutes is a great time.

I think we both can be pretty awful.
he Biscuit Queen
www.thebiscuitqueen.blogspot.com

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.

realman

BQ, points well take, we seem to pretty much see eye to eye on much of this I think.

I did think about the case of the guys who don't care about "her pleasure" as I was typing my last post...but I think the fact is there are just as many women who are the same! So that still leaves the case of he does the "mating dance", and she gives him "sex"- if that's what you want to call lying there like a rag doll with a blank stare on her face, or being so focused on her own pleasure that his pleasure means as much to her as a piece of plastic with a battery in it. I do think there are just as many women as men who are selfish in bed.

As for the comment about the effort/time women put into attracting a man...looking at some of the "specimens" out there I don't think I can fully believe that claim...and lest we forget, an awful lot of guys spend hours at the gym every week primarily to look "buff" for the chicks...not to mention getting sports cars, clamoring for high-paying jobs, etc. all to have more "sex appeal". So on that point I do not agree that women work harder.

So I am sticking with my opinion that any woman who expects a man to do something for her in return for sex is being at least a little selfish about it...especially if he "knows how to please his woman in bed". Of course I'm also going to voice my opinion that any guy who cowtows to her every whim simply for the promise of sex is pretty much a loser :twisted: , and doubly so if she's louusy or selfish in bed...

Roy

Very enlightening thread!

Debating the mysteries of human sexuality is second only to discussing the stock market if you want to throw gasoline on a fire!

BQ --
Quote
I finally managed to completely change the kind of physique I am attracted to, so I suppose ramping up the sex drive should be a piece of cake, right?


I was working on this kind of transition myself, about a year ago.

Infatuated with a fat young woman (errr.... sorry.... a "big gal"), who had grace, intelligence, charm, wit, money, a professional career, excellent skills in bed, Southern (yes!), and to boot, a champion Scrabble player!

Sorry to say....

I could not self-hypnotize myself into finding her sexually desirable.

This makes me a shallow shit, right?

The tragedy of physical desire...

I still wonder what would have happened if she had been 75% of her physical self....

I'm hoping some guys here at SYG will back me up before I have to commit sepuku for being politically incorrect on the Big Girlzzzzz ....
It's a terrible thing ... living in fear." (Roy - hunted replicant. "Blade Runner.")

Alpha Male

Manipulating the partner for sex is another phenomenally bad idea. I believe the partner is eventually going to ask themselves "Why can't he/she simply love me for who I am?". Once they become cognizant of that the bittering will begin and eventually I believe they will find someone who will fill that need for them.

And when I say manipulating I refer to the you-will-do-this-or-you-won't-get-any type of manipulation rather than the look-back-over-your-shoulder-and-oops-I-dropped-my-towel type.  The second type I actually enjoy. The first would probably make me become spiteful.

Quote
So AM, will your behavior change after your talk with your wife? Will hers? Could you ask her how she switches gears from the kids?

I don't know that my behaviour will change all that much. I already try to give my wife 100%. My wife reciprocates that. We consider ourselves very lucky/happy/blessed. Realman might wonder if I'm not already performing for sex but it really isn't anything like that.  In fact, for the second part of your question, this is how it works for us. Michelle may feel that desire to "not shift gears". She feels it is selfish and lazy on her part and immediately pushes those feelings aside. She believes that as my wife she is never aloud to deny me her body. If I want it, I get it. She points out that she never regrets or resents it. Once she decides she is committed to the act she says it is always wonderful. (These are her words - honest.) The flip side of that in our marriage is that I am never aloud to deny her my body. If she wants it, she gets it. (I know - yeah - like I would ever say no.) But it doesn't matter if I'm pissed about something, would rather stay up and watch "Texas Chainsaw Zombie Screamer", or I'm in the middle of the final level of video game. We never deny, we're never forced.  Here's probably the bit that might help understand Michelle's ability to push feelings of selfishness aside. Let's say I've woken her up three nights in a row at about 2am for some lovin', if I get home and the house is a mess and dinner isn't ready, chore X isn't done - I don't say nuthin' and I don't give a damn. I'll take the lovin' any day. I'll buy the pizza so she doesn't have to cook.
We actually look at the physical side of the marriage as a cure-all. It relaxes, it smoothes over transgressions, it enhances communication, it gives us a sense of security and shared identity, and in my world, nobody can hold a candle to my wife. We aren't randy in front of the children but we are definitely intimate for them to see. The kids sense of well being is also affected by our open displays of affection. Even if they just go "Eeeeewwww" and try to stop our kissing. If we *aren't* being like this (getting too involved in our own things) we begin to notice the behaviour changes in our children.
Lovin' - it's good for what ails ya'!

EDIT:  :laugh2: My wife called two seconds after I posted this, apologized that the house is a mess, and asked if I would bring home a pizza. Last night was dance night - tango night. Tango - it's good for what ails ya"!

It's GOOD to be the king.
ies come in three types: Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics

Peter

Congratulations to Thomas! The rewievs on Amazon are really positive. One example:



Thomas Ellis: The 21st Century's Mark Twain

Reviewer:   Stanley B. Gaver (McLean, VA) - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)  
I like to read in the evening after dinner, but usually after a full day of work, driving kids to after-school activities, making dinner, and helping with homework, I usually drift off 15 minutes after opening a book.

Not so with Thomas Ellis' book, "The Rantings of a Single Male". Not so by a mile! I got the book one Thursday, read two-thirds of it by midnight, and gobbled up the rest of it by Friday evening.

I cannot recommend this book highly enough to anyone who has the slightest notion that today's feminism isn't "quite right". I promise you that you will not be disappointed. In fact, I guarantee that you will be hugely entertained.

And that entertainment value is why I think that Ellis' book may very well be The Book That Changes Everything.

I don't say that lightly. As a men's rights activist, I know the difficulty of challenging feminism and misandry, but I think that the real genius of this book is that it delivers a devastatingly accurate message in a hugely entertaining way, all the while managing to "deconstruct feminism". Ellis successfully tears to shreds the lies, the distortions and the pathology that is today's feminism ... and does it with a cutting humor and scathing satire equal to that of Mark Twain, Will Rogers or any of America's other great humorists. Mr. Ellis gives Western women the "equality" that they've asked for and so richly deserve.

While only a relatively few motivated individuals will ever take the time to read the "academic" books about feminism to learn about the evil that feminism has become, Ellis has written a book that even unmotivated and "clueless" individuals will - I hope - gobble up. THIS book has the potential to tear the Lace Curtain to shreds.

IMHO, Thomas Ellis is the 21st century's Mark Twain!

For those who are offended by this review, instead of getting upset, please read the book! You might learn something new!
BM-NByw7VE2PwjfTtsVdeE5ipuqx1AqkEv1

Sue

Who really picks up the tab when women buy their own

   

September 12, 2004


Should "buy her own..."

Have noticed that posters of Men's rights message boards tend to believe that women should pay their own way.  Many have either been messed over big-time in divorces or have relatives/friends stuck in a form of serfdom a.k.a., child-support.   After a divorce, it's one thing to start over with mortgage payments   at 32, but it's totally another at 52 - and then be scowled for not chipping in towards Katie's college textbooks.  Another complaint is the general rudeness of (American and European) women toward men.   These men, misogynist or otherwise, make a valid point - after all, there are plenty of polite ways for a woman to convey to the man sitting a few barstools over that she is not interested.    And aren't these the same women who cry the blues to their girlfriends about another Valentine's Day gone by and no diamond to show??

But secular masculism is feminism in pants.   Sometimes can't help but wonder if NOW's database had been hacked into; it's essays plagiarized.   Oh well, guess greed and finger pointing are (so prevalent in feminist books) prone to happen when Father/Son/HolySpirit goes ignored, ridiculed or flat out banned from the discussion.  Instead, the topic seems to center on money - that she should "buy her own [darn] beer!"   Of course, then (goes the predictable ape-[sheet]) after two or three dutch-treat dates she'll hopefully go at it with him like a primate in estrus - (then leave immediately after finishing her cigarette) because we're supposed to be evolving past "john and prostitute" rituals of dating (and, oh Darwin forbid - "marriage").

What these forums seem to largely forget is:  there's a price that every adult pays when married women are compelled to pay with their own coin.   With every adult primate out there scratching for a living, the cost is evident in the (wanting) want ads section of any newspaper.   In this metro area of about fifty thousand adults, the average number of office jobs posted daily is about twenty - been checking the paper for going on two years.   The Sunday edition posts about twice that number, but atleast half of those are through (female-staffed) rackets, commonly referred to as employment agencies; one could wonder if business owners contract their hiring to these matriarchies in order to avoid legal trouble - which can occur when mr-employer, (wanting the job done right, the first time) hires the best man for that job.

These office jobs range from data-entry clerks to upper-level managers.  Around here, the unemployment rate is about five percent - but word is, unemployment stats are based on the number of people who are still eligible to collect compensation.   If only five percent of the 2,500 unemployed individuals, who still receive unemployment benefits, are seeking office work, each of these 125 individuals stands less than a twenty percent chance of being hired.   While these figures are not based on any formal, or even informal study, one could wonder about these ball-park figures during the half hour application or initial interviewing process... when the phone rings again, and the caller, like the previous one, is evidently asking similar questions - regarding the "fast paced" (yet falling short of the groceries and rent) customer-service position.  While $9 an hour may be a borderline insult, it sure beats an utterly demoralizing $0.00 an hour.

A desk job could be a viable option for a man who is no longer able to climb telephone poles, fight fires or install carpet.  Why the late-70s man, who has been on his feet since 6 am bagging groceries, isn't working as a teller over at the bank (where they have chairs for the tellers) is anyone's guess...though surely, Canada cannot be the only nation whose banking executives may have disrespected returning war veterans.     As a job-seeker, (because taxes and health-insurance are nothing but extortion) have also noticed the points of contact are often female - one could wonder how often these women, (in the human-resources office) receiving/reviewing incoming resumes, come to work feeling somewhat disenchanted with a current (live-in) boyfriend - who has yet to present a certain 2 x 2.5 inch white box won't - or are upset with an ex-(boyfriend or husband) who is slow in coughing up his half of the kid's school pics.

The absence of help-wanted signs, while six out of ten registers remain closed throughout the late afternoon rush - seem to evidence an employers' market (while two or more employees' back teeth have been floating for the last hour or so?).   Wasn't more than a decade ago, in that very same store, above each register a sign proclaimed that no customer would be number four in line.   Needless to say, those signs have been years since taken down, and while being number four isn't a common occurrence, being behind one shopping cart - brimming with the usual haul of frozen entrees, disposable (excuses-for) mop-heads - which is behind another - where paper towels in the nine-roll (two-week-supply  ) size are being placed on the conveyer belt, when one of the lines is jostled by a child rushing back with the econ-sized box of trash bags...  Perhaps employers' annoying practice of hiring skeleton crews is only part of the wait, the other half spent waiting and waiting might be the check-out process of convenience items - which hog up more time than plunking onto the belt a sizable pot roast, a cotton mop-head, a half-dozen washable tea-towels (and leaving the hundred-count eco-killing trash bags on the store shelf).

But the environmentally friendly process of peeling fresh vegetables and cleaning the floor with a (real) mop and squeegee is more drudgery for many a "working" (like a sled-dog) mom.  Cotton mop-heads are known to become dingy; from time to time they need soaked in a bucket of warm washing soda, rinsed thoroughly then left to bleach in the sun - while a shelf full of fluffy tea-towels become, real quick, a(nother) damp load of laundry to be put in the dryer then taken out and folded.   A wastebasket full of plastic vessels and paper towels take but a minute to put in one of the not yet too crowded (super-sized) trashcans sitting out back - and fighting the wind.

Meanwhile it's no big secret that the golden rule of economics of supply and demand applies to communities that are finding themselves hard-pressed to contract places   to dump convoys of incoming truckloads of (supposedly bio-degradable) plastic bags - while, to and from the sites, traffic snarls on (potholed) highways which were engineered in the days when families weren't compelled to finance two vehicles (one emitting fumes while the clerk at the drive-thru waits for the cheese-burger ordered without mustard to come off the grill, as the driver in the other vehicle sees the exit light change to red for the second time).   It seems there are never enough highways; the new ones (displacing more home and business-owners - relegating both to the mercies of female-staffed mortgage institutions) take forever to get finished, while the old ones get bumpier with each passing winter.   Meanwhile, less ground is available to absorb (Ivan's) rainwater and so replenish the water table upon which both residents and businesses depend.

This essay isn't an attempt to pass judgment   upon working moms who make less-than eco-friendly choices.   Frankly, can't really blame these overworked women - who, after the daycare, car, and UGLY clothing expenses - barely have enough money left over to buy a hard-cover book, or time to read it.  But at the same time, 'am not make more excuses for wives who ditch their husbands - as if these men were quik-way cigarette lighters (because the laws let them - the same laws which were originally intended to protect the long-term housewife, who in the past had found herself ditched for a hot secretary).  But discussions seldom, if ever, seen on these (grossly secular) Men's rights boards deal with one basic fact:  when most people, men or women, are compelled to do too much - and the work (be it an accounting report, a mowed lawn or folded towels) ends up mediocre at best - sooner or later, the hurried results are bound to have adverse effects upon the individual, his or her family (and upon the ecosystem).  Now add months or years of not-quite-enough-sleep to this classic recipe-from-below...  Should anyone wonder why legions of (otherwise) smart women are making - then bitterly regretting - dumb choices!

Having listened to mothers exchanging stories about their children, it seems evident enough that keeping after missing buttons, crumbs left on the countertop, paths of tracked-in gravel, runs to and from soccer practice...is full-time work.  At the risk of sounding naïve, people want to do a good job - and any workplace study   will reveal the reason why employees quit their jobs is less about pay and more about work environment.   It's one thing to divorce oneself from an office (where the server is slow, the phones constantly ring, the boss yelps about productivity but is too much of a cheapskate to upgrade the system, and the coffee pot reeks of burnt residue) but to give 90-days (or has that since "evolved" to 30-days) notice at home is another matter.

Attached to that couple-ounce registered-letter is not only tons of delusion, but the baggage of female-staffed job-creation - positions, paid with "society's coin," which create neither product nor service only generate for every man and woman (the rubbish pile of) higher bills and emotional blackmail.

Seems that as more women fall for the "buying-her-own" philosophy, we all end up footing - at the very least - one or more portions of that bill.

Sue Botchie

Sue

(that i'm hoping to get hold of when i get to town later this week) is:

George Gilder's, "Naked Nomads"

Some time ago, on the net, i came across an article about this (published) economist.  He came of age during the late 60s, had long hair, and had hung out with other hippies.

Then he grew up, and found a good job in the Ronald Reagan administration.


As for Esthar Brownnoser Villars's, "Manipulated Man," i would like to also get a copy, because i am simply curious.  Also,  if i was a gambler, i'd bet money that she is wide in the face and narrow in the hip.  

Sincerely,
a girl - normally narrow in the face and wide in the hip :)

The Biscuit Queen

Sue you make some interesting points. First I must say that this essay is a MUCH better improvement than your normal hit and run insult attacks.

On the ecological impact of the working mom-I think that this is a red herring. Housewives today are just as likely to use those products as working women, in fact when I had TV the ads were just as often geared towards a mom in dockers, loafers, and denim shirt (the mom uniform) as in  high heeled power suits. If ecology is important to people, they will be environmentally sound, if not, they won't. Working will not change that.

As far as the soccar mom business, that too is misleading. I have a child in organized sports. So do many of my friends in different states. Most parents drop off their children. Other parents sit on the sidelines talking to other parents. Sometimes a few parents, usually men, actually help. But most do not. So I really don't think that you can consider this work.

You are muddying the waters by speaking of different issues. Let's separate them.

One issue you are speaking of is dating. Since single women today are just as likely as single men to be working, then there is no reason men should be expected to pay for dates or drinks. Not a single reason. To put down a man for expecting equal treatment, ie the woman to pick up half the tab, is sexist.

No one here seriously believes that the only good sex is cheap, meaningless sex, or if they do it is a small minority. Certainly the men's movement is not condoning that as a platform. What they do want is fair laws concerning the safety of sex-male birth control, reproductive choice, protection of underage boys from adult women, and protection against false allegations. Pretty reasonable stuff. Not prostitute and john relationship, not the lying, trap into marriage, or change her mind and cry rape, but two adults consenting to be together, to be respectful and truthful. Pretty reasonable stuff.

Now marriage is a different issue. There are *gasp* disagreements as to what the role of wife means  in the men's movement. Some do feel that housewives are a burden on the husband and that all women should be working just like all men are expected to. They feel that there is no excuse for one person to be forced to work 40-70 hours a week while the other gets to stay home and enjoy her free time. They also get upset because some of these women work part time, and have the attitude of what is his is ours, what is mine is mine.

Others feel that marriage is a personal choice, and whatever works.

The problem is that divorce laws are not equitable between men and women. Women usually get compensation for staying out of the workforce in the form of alimony or child support, even if SHE is the one who wanted to stay home.  If a man is out of work he usually gets nothing when divorced and is called a bum in the process. It is not the woman staying home or working which is the problem, it is the inequity of the courts. The money is merely a symptom.

I think the money issue comes down to choices. If women want to be able to stay home, they need to compensate. For working less, they earn less. For working less outside the home, they must do much more of the housework. Women need to see the whole picture, including lawn maintanance, repairs, etc as valid men's housework. Divorce cannot be a cash cow. There should be 50/50 shared parenting with no money changing hands. The husband is in no way responsible for maintaining her standard of living.

No more bitching about 75 cents on the dollar, or women doing 10 hours more housework, or what ever. These are products of the choices women make, so they need to just accept them and stop blaming men.

In other words, women need to start respecting men the way the want men to respect them. If you want hubby to foot the bill, you better THANK him. It all comes down to two way respect, not feminist- women get respect, men get spit on.

You will be shocked that when a woman shows true gratitude for her husband's supporting the family, how much appreciation she will get in return for supporting him.  

The other problem today that I have fallen into even in this post, is the assumption the woman will be staying home. With more women working higher jobs, men shoudl certainly have an equal choice in whether to work or not. A man is just as capable of looking after house and home as a woman is. To assume that a woman will be the primary caretaker of children is presumptious, especially since it would be considered equally presumptious that  to assume she has to stay home.  In other words, women are given a choice, and are empowered to do so, and the payment for that is equality-the man should be equally empowered to the same decisions.

SO what these men want is equality. Women have fought hard for their side, and it is time for them to allow equality by allowing men to have the same options in their lives.

Much of your essay was rambling, but I think I covered the main points.

Thank you again for at least putting some real time and thought into this. It is appreciated.
he Biscuit Queen
www.thebiscuitqueen.blogspot.com

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.

Quasimodo

Was the above non sequitur a troll attack, or maybe I just didn't get it?
axine Waters on the 2004 March for Women:
"I have to march because my mother could not have an abortion." ! ! !

realman

BQ, that was an EXCELLENT response to Sue's post and I think you both addressed her comments accurately and gave a pretty accurate synopsis of why most of us are here. 8)

Admittedly we do sometimes sound a bit like a mirroring of feminist rantings...but I don't know that in and of itself that should be condemned...for example, if feminists blame men for anything and everything, are we doing anything wrong in pointing out the fallacies of their claims, or the things which they overlook in making their claims? I don't think we are whining when we do this. We are simply rebutting thier claims, and saying "hey we know this, this, and this suck about being a woman...but remember, that, that, and that suck about being a man so stop trying to convince everyone that women are a special case."

So far I don't think SYG posters on the whole have done much to imply "life sucks and it's all women's fault". What I have seen is mostly folks pointing out the double standards (i.e., "housewife" woman vs. "deadbeat bum" man), the false allegations (the 75 cents on the dollar myth, etc.), and the bullshit of being a man that most women seem unaware of (i.e., expectations that a man should risk life and limb for a woman but not vice versa; women complaining about being "hit on" all the time while most men have to jump through hoops, put ona dance, and act like soemone tehy're to just to have women notice he exists).

Pointing out truth and reality does not constitute whining in my book...

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