Another Argument on the PE Boards

Started by Buddy-Rey, Apr 10, 2005, 02:03 AM

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I've kind of moved past feeling resentment for people who feel this way.  I think they're just severely misguided and brainwashed, and need some people to correct their false information and help them see the light.  I don't think I did too great a job here, especially since I didn't have any numbers.  But I tried...


That was a good effort.

P.S. - Have you done anything about getting your GED yet ? - I remember you writing about it on a previous thread. If you can put across points like that you should sail through it.  :)
I don't think I'll get married again. I'll just find a woman I don't like and give her a house." - Lewis Grizzard

Their slogan may as well be 'From each according to his ability, to each according to her gender" - Judge John Roberts


Thanks, man!  Still, you flatter me.  I used to be kind of a soap-box hog back in eighth grade when we had debates in history class.

    I still haven't gone after the GED.  I'm kind of stagnated right now.  See, I never went after my license (I'm petrified of NC roads), so at almost twenty-one years of age, I still don't know how to drive.  Also, I'm still living at home, with my dad and sister, and he has his business obligations.  Things really got screwed up for us when my mom left six years ago (financially and emotionally) so we're still struggling to pull ourselves up by the boot straps.  

    If I'm going to do anything, it has to work on both of our schedules, which is tough.  Of course, all of these excuses sound nice, but the real reason is probably just that I'm a lazy, unmotivated slob.  I make no pretenses about that.  It's something that I'm constantly on myself about, because I really do want to change things.  That's one of many reasons that I became an MRA.


Incidentally, I find it hilarious that nobody on that board has responded yet!  I didn't even haul out any stats on 'em, yet something I said must have clicked with at least some of them because nobody has offered a rebuttal!

    I've decided to be a lot more assertive with these guys.  I've let plenty B.S. go unchecked on the net because I didn't want to rock the boat or stir the kettle, but no more.  I'm going to call people on their misandry and/or idiocy from now on.  Is this what the feminists mean when they talk about "empowerment"???    :D


A few belts of ammo for your discussion:

1) Cultural Guilt:  Cultural Guilt is when someone tries the "thousands of years" argument.  Put simply they use actions you didn't commit, to demand that you "deserve what happened" or "owe me".  I often point out the fact, in the case of gender, that all WOMEN had a father and therefore owe no more and NO LESS than I do on that count.  As to color, I would point out to the person being responded to that clearly someone has fanned the flames of "you're wrong based on your color/ethnicity" (and this also applies to religion.  Point out to them that EVERY ethnic group, and both genders, and ALL religions have committed atrocities.  And then ask them, if they truly believe this dogma, if Cultural Guilt has validity then they can be the first person to pull out their wallet or spend time in jail for actions they didn't commit, weren't alive to see, and abhor today.

2) VAWA and shelters: The idea, often tossed out with disdain to men talking about a lack of shelters, is that "go and build your own".  To which I answer: "We did".  Through tax dollars that BOTH men and women pay, the "hard hearted Patriarchy" legislated VAWA and that men are footing 1/2 the bill for shelters they are denied access to.

3) Duluth Model: this is the back bone of the VAWA scheme.  Since it starts with the PREMISE that DV is males are the perpetrators and women are the victims.  PERIOD.  The Duluth Model uses words like "male privilege", "Patriarchy", and is designed to target ONLY male abusers.  Obviously this ignores, and often excuses, female abusers and mutual abuse (as is often the case).  Also, the current problem is that DV rates have NOT declined significantly after a decade of VAWA enforcement.

What is also interesting to note is that it is the same feminists who back VAWA who argue against sending the men to jail unless the attack was particularly aggregious.  The answer, IMO, can be found in that many women in the abuse INDUSTRY are women's studies majors, and that their continued revenue depends on keeping as many men in the "batterers treatment program" (which the man pays for) for as long as possible.

Lastly (as this is already a long post) there is too much incentive, and no deterrent due to legal punishment for the filing of false DV charges.  Considering the weight of the state, and the violence by proxy that is brought to bear, and the expense and legal peril leveled at the accused, the current status quo certainly DOES cause a power imbalance in a relationship, but certainly not one that has any advantage for a man.

I hope the words are of some use to you.

'Watch our backs at home, we'll guard the wall over here. You can sleep safe tonight, we'll guard the door."

Isaiah 6:8
"Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"


Wow! Good stuff Steven! I have to remember them when I'm trying to debate the local fem-hags. 8)
Feminism is the product of female selfishness, compounded by male chivalry.

- Peter Zohrab -


Thank you, Steven!  That's some great stuff.  I may come back with those facs tomorrow, but to tell you the truth, this guy is starting to wear on my nerves a bit and I may decide to just let our debate die.  He's had the last word so far and, idiotic as it may be, it's obvious that I can't change his mind.  Still, I'll probably add something to the thread, just so that I can enlighten those others.  I may even link them to some mens' issues articles (I won't link them to forums though.  I don't want to subject you guys to some of the would-be trolls roaming about, looking for innocent men to bash).


Buddy-Rey and Assault,

Some of those thoughts were mine, but others I have "crafted" because others took the time to think them out.

So, [full disclosure] they were not entirely mine.

That said, BR, don't get frustrated by that dude.  Your intent (and this will cause you a relief valve as to how he's tickin' you off) is that OTHERS will read it and it will start to sink in.

And maybe they will start to see things in a different light.

'Watch our backs at home, we'll guard the wall over here. You can sleep safe tonight, we'll guard the door."

Isaiah 6:8
"Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"


Thanks again, Steven!  That really does put it in perspective.  If I can reach somebody and at least get them interested enough in this issue to read an article or two, then I've done my job as an MRA and that's all I should really care about.

I guess I get so frustrated with people like this because their brain just seems blocked to the most blatantly obvious facts in the world.  How do you make somebody understand what they should already know, simply by virtue of it being so painfully self-evident in the first place?  Are these people all sniffing model airplane glue or something?!

I guess I shouldn't be so harsh though.  I remember when I was blind to these truths myself.  Still, things weren't as bad back then, and even if they were, I was only a child.  These doubting Thomases are all full-grown adults.  What's their excuse???  If it is, as most MRA's believe, the result of social engineering, then it sure was pretty darn effective.

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