A Brotherhood

[richard ford]

A real life brotherhood.

I believe that the men's movement may be ready for practical action. We may be ready to form a Brotherhood.

A Brotherhood should benefit men at ever point that it touches the life of men. It is more than just a way of putting two fingers up at women and saying 'I do not need you'. A Brotherhood can provide a social focus, economic benefits and a network to fall back upon when under attack from feminists.

I am not particularly interested in rehashing all the reasons why a brotherhood may be a good idea. Each of us have different views on this and there will be some men who will be against it. None of this matters because the decision to join or not is an individual one. A man may be a member of many brotherhoods just as he has many friends. The object is to reclaim male space rather than impose any particular experience.

Men are not good at joining things and the idea of joining an all male association has scary homosexual associations fro many working class men. The upper classes have had the freemasons for many years which I suppose fulfil some of the same functions. Many freemasons were educated in single sex schools which gives them some idea what to expect. If fact all ruling groups have a tradition of male only activity which is one reason they are powerful and successful.

The first thing a Brotherhood can do is provide a circle of friends. Sometimes men will go out together in the evenings but the real object is to go home with a woman. This is profoundly disrespectful to other men because we will immediately ignore our friends immediately an interesting woman comes into view. The effect of this is doubly destructive because men set themselves up to be ignored by the women they pursue and by their friends who are being more successful. When a woman joins the group she becomes the focus of attention- all intelligent conversation stops and the men compete with one another to be funny.

A man who joins a Brotherhood is safe from this sort of thing. He will be valued for his human qualities rather than the beauty of his girlfriend or his car. This allows him to relax and become unconditionally himself for the first time since childhood. He will become less preoccupied by 'success'  and more successful as a result.

Brotherhoods may also provide access to other benefits. Cheap credit may be available through Brotherhood credit unions. These are mutually owned loan funds usually attached to churches, trade unions or social clubs. They do not the expensive infrastructure or permanent staff of banks so can offer cheaper loans. It is hoped that the 'common bond' the members have with one another may result in a more trust based alternative to credit scoring.

Brotherhoods may offer a way on to the property ladder. Three or four men may buy a house together which is a great deal cheaper than renting or buying a flat. Property prices are now so high in London and other large cities that this may be the only way to live there for many men. Men who live in Brotherhood homes would be free to become involved with women but can never take them back to the Brotherhood house. There is a practical reason for this because it prevents a woman from throwing a man from the home and gaining ownership herself. This would be a disaster not only for the man concerned but for his housemates who would find themselves in conflict with a woman who had just destroyed a good friend of theirs.

Brotherhoods will also offer employment opportunities. There are many 'women's networking' societies where women meet to ensure that only women obtain powerful jobs. No male equivilant exists so Brotherhoods must fill the gap.

There will be some Brotherhoods that will be nothing more than a place to lick ones wounds and moan about women but I hope to create a Brotherhood that is more than this. I hope to create a Brotherhood that is the greatest friend a man can have, which provides affordable housing and access to areas of work that are closed to men at present. I want to create something that no man can live without.

[angelssk7]

This reminds me a great deal of what I and my friends do via Christian ministry. We have a sort of elite group of 5-8 highly active men, and maybe 15 more who take part, but are moreso there to hang out. We also have a house, nicknamed the Greenhouse because the air conditioner blows the circuit breaker... but in any case we have a "home base" where we can discuss what we've been up against in recent days (i.e. on Tuesday I had an hour-long debate with a man from a local cult), and also to refine our knowledge of Scripture...

For making an MRA equivalent... the main thing you would need to do is find a few benefactors to purchase a house or two. From there, decide what your target will be. If it's college students, trying forming something like my "Lasagna Club" where you have regular cookouts or other activities to attract men, and from there you will find a few men who have been recently having problems with women, and are thus able to break free from the 'man bad, woman good' mindset. Also, let them know that you have some good housing  nearby that's cheaper than what they would find normally. For older men... bring up the subject in a pub or wherever you think best, find a few men who might be interested, and work with them. All around the big key is finding men who are interested and building that interest, and in due time they too will become as active as you.

Of course, there are others who are not going to care enough to become active... but that's why the brotherhoods of old were selective. You'll have to use sound judgement in selecting who will be your elite core.

[richard ford]

The thing to do is to make a start...

We need two or three men to meet up for a few beers and see what comes of it.

I work in London UK

How about you?

[PaulGuelph]

You have a nice idea there.

I'm in Ontario, Canada.

My feeling is that there are many fathers who are angry.  They want to vent their anger and to talk about their legal battles. Aside from the internet, this has been my real-life contact with the men's movement.

I don't want to be angry and I don't want to hear everyone's story. I would like to work within a group of MRAs who are reasonably happy and who enjoy working on men's activist stuff. There could be fun outings such as police forum's, plastering signs all over town, or a little protest.  Sometimes, just sit around and write letters, like an Amnesty International meeting. Heck, I would even buy the pizza!!

It should be fun, but angry, deppressing people bring me down. The secret to building MRA groups is to make it fun and then make it cool.

Paul G

[angryharry]

Hi Richard

Have you seen this website for arranging meetings ...

http://www.meetup.com/

AH

[Buddy-Rey]

That's awesome, Roger!  I'm eager to hear about your progress.  I love this idea more every time I hear it and if anything like it ever comes to Charlotte, NC, I'll be one of the first to sign up.  Unfortunately, nobody's going to start one here because this city blows.  (Hehe...so much for civic pride, huh?)

    Good luck!!!

[angelssk7]

That's awesome, Roger!  I'm eager to hear about your progress.  I love this idea more every time I hear it and if anything like it ever comes to Charlotte, NC, I'll be one of the first to sign up.  Unfortunately, nobody's going to start one here because this city blows.  (Hehe...so much for civic pride, huh?)

    Good luck!!!

Well Buddy, it's your job to start the brotherhood. There's the Georgia Tech Lasagna Club here in Atlanta... so if you ever get your own group going, we'll have to network.

By the way, if you need a job this summer, Woodruff Scout Reservation (Boy Scout camp near Murphy) is looking for staff right now. PM me if you're interested.

[richard ford]

Remember that all you need are three men who are willing to meet up and talk. Nobody needs to commit to any more than this (though it would be nice).

Are we really saying that we cannot find two other semi-aware men in our home town?

Just start talking to people you meet!

You will find them everywhere! I found one today!! Just start!!!

[Sosiologi r]

Men and also women consider images and statuses as important issues. This has an effect on the way they relate to MRA groups, as well. The label "women hating whiners" is a powerful stereotype that is used as a weapon against MRA's.

Personally, I favour the positive forms of activism and organisation. Building a network or club of men, who do "manly" things together and talk about man's life from a male perspective. This network may be build around Rotaries, Lions or "lodges" - or around basketball teams, golf clubs or working buddies.

The organization may also profile itself as a "reliable" and "reasonable" proponent of the equality of sexes. To reach this, I would like to hear gender neutral speech about parental rights, sexual rights, equality in the daily life (doing household chores etc.).  Allocating time not only to men's problems but also to the cases in which women are oppressed in society. This organization would not be solely a MRA organization: It would be an organization for the equality of the sexes. The participants of the organization would be males and females, 50%/50%.

An example of such an organization is
http://www.ifeminists.net/introduction/

Role models for such a fight for equality are Christina Summers and Warren Farrel, for example.

How does this sound to you?

[RLA]

The organization may also profile itself as a "reliable" and "reasonable" proponent of the equality of sexes. To reach this, I would like to hear gender neutral speech about parental rights, sexual rights, equality in the daily life (doing household chores etc.).  Allocating time not only to men's problems but also to the cases in which women are oppressed in society. This organization would not be solely a MRA organization: It would be an organization for the equality of the sexes. The participants of the organization would be males and females, 50%/50%.

An example of such an organization is
http://www.ifeminists.net/introduction/

Role models for such a fight for equality are Christina Summers and Warren Farrel, for example.

How does this sound to you?

1) I think that "iFeminists.net" has as much to do with equality between the sexes as "iRacists.net" would have to do with equality between the races. If they choose to retain the link to one of the most poisonous ideologies in history, then that should tell you all you need to know about their motivation.
    "We're not Nazis! We're individualist Nazis!"
    "We're not cannibals! We're individualist cannibals!"
Etc...

2) Men need to be partisan right now. The time for true collaboration with women may be in the somewhat distant future - if at all - and certainly not in the context of a brotherhood. A botherhood is called a brotherhood for a reason. Where do women fit in to a brotherhood? They don't.

3) Everyone, everywhere is reminded on at least an hourly basis, in detail, of exactly how women are oppressed by men and circumstance throughout the world. This litany of oppression is as often false as real, but is all treated as gospel. How much more time and resource do you think needs to be allocated to the woes of women?

I agree with you on Warren Farrell.

[The Biscuit Queen]

Soc, it sounds perfectly reasonable. I think we need to have people fighting on all fronts. Women need to retain some groups of people who fight for women, we need many groups who fight for both (like the folks at ifeminism) and we need groups that fight for men only. That way we have balance.

A brotherhood is an excellent idea. The fact that feminists are so threatened by men only spaces, yet insist on women only spaces, tells me that we are in desparate need of men only spaces. Men should insist on having spaces which do not include women. As a woman I would respect that. I am not threatened by men choosing to spend time without women.

Soc, you are coming off as reasonable. I really appreciate it. As I just expirienced with Trish's blog, many feminists are reactionary fools. They cannot stick to topic and fly off on insulting rages at any sign of logical thought.

So please continue to post here, we enjoy your input.

[PaulGuelph]

I don't like Sosiologi r's plan.

We already have a huge multi-billion dollar industry that promotes women- only viewpoints. Here in Canada there is even a federal government Ministry just to lobby for women. There is tremendous descrimination against men and male-bashing is the number one message of the media.

To balance that we need to talk about men's issues only.

The Lions Club, Optimists, Rotaries etc. suck, because they are men serving women. What have they ever done to help men or men issues? Nothing.

Household chores That's another women's issues. That's the whole problem. We need to change the dialog so that people start talking about men's issues.

P.S. Just for curiosity, how are women "oppressed"? Too funny

[The Biscuit Queen]

I agree that the language needs to change. Most issues today are not women's issues, but human issues. Reproductive rights as a woman's issue closes dialog to the fact that men reproduce and need reproductive rights as well.

My take on Sosiologi is that he/she is a feminist who is trying to feel us out. I appreciate his/her candor and open mind. I have no problem with people trying to come up with options as long as they are civil, which Sos has been. One of the great things about SYG is that disenting opinions are heard and respected.

I do not think ifeminists is the answer, as I stated above. However I do like their philosophy, even if many do not follow it.

I do think that even if all ifeminists followed the party line, that does not replace the need for men's groups which are made of and led by men. Women need to allow men to define thier own movement. While I do think that you get more flies with honey, not vinigar, and I have said as much, it is not up to me or any other woman to define the men's movement.

[Ivar]

To balance that we need to talk about men's issues only.

Not only will that never happen...

...it also isn't right... Now I know, you will ask: Is the current situation right? Certainly not! But start talking about men's issues only won't make it right, it will just turn the table.

[angryharry]

Ah yes.

What do we need to do?

What do we need to do?

What do we need to do?

What do we need to do?

What do we need to do?

I have seen MRAs asking this very question for five years now on the internet, and for five years before that in the real world.

And the newer MRAs will all then come up with grand ideas that all the older MRAs will have heard many times before.

And the upshot is that very little is done.

My advice is to stop talking about what needs to be done, and just do it.