A bunch of right wing christian fundimentalist abusers!

[Wookie]

As this site is metioned in this sorry pice of writing I thought all here should see it and have the opportunity to comment if you wish.

http://www.pandagon.net/archives/2005/04/overview_of_the.html

The best way to understand the men's rights movement for me is to view them as the secular arm of the right wing move to return America to an old-fashioned patriarchy. Many MRAs consider themselves Christian, and some even consider themselves fundamentalists. But generally, their arguments for male dominance come not from the Bible but from repeated and colorful assertion that nature has made women inferior.

I know we should just ignor these lot but they are mentioning us so I felt others here might want the right to anserw some of the acusations being made :twisted:

Wookie

[Alpha Male]

I've read the link.
Same old crap.
They deny what is blatantly obvious if you bother to do any reading of the news.
Same claims that they would help us by disempowering the "patriarchy".
Don't worry, the matriachy will treat it's slaves well.
I enjoy that she is concerned. She should be.
We aren't going away.

[Bender]

What the writer does not realize is that the more publicity we are given the more people become aware.  And the key to causing the Matriarchy to fall is simply making people aware.  So thanks, Pandagon.

[Bender]

One writer says:

This, of course, is tragic on many levels. Because the men's movement should be the flip side of feminism, the side of the coin that says, damn right it's okay for women to work, and it's okay for men to stay home and raise the kids--it's okay for people to order their life however they want to.

What this really means is that women should be free to take off their bras and put them on the man making him the wife.

[Sir Jessy of Anti]

What the writer does not realize is that the more publicity we are given the more people become aware.  And the key to causing the Matriarchy to fall is simply making people aware.  So thanks, Pandagon.

Right on, exactly.

[Dave K]

One writer says:

This, of course, is tragic on many levels. Because the men's movement should be the flip side of feminism, the side of the coin that says, damn right it's okay for women to work, and it's okay for men to stay home and raise the kids--it's okay for people to order their life however they want to.

What this really means is that women should be free to take off their bras and put them on the man making him the wife.

Frankly I agree with her, I DO believe that both feminism and mens rights should be fighting for the same thing... equality.  Men AND women should be free to stay at home with their kids without someone telling them they're being 'repressed' or not being 'a REAL man'.  I'll go a step further and say that the majority of men and women DO fight for equality, it's the vocal minorities that throw the system out of balance.  Right now I'm focused on mens rights, because the balance has shifted too far to the mysandric, but if it some day tilts back the other way I'll be first in line to say "enough".  When boys are getting decent educations and going to college at equivelant rates to girls, when fathers can be assured that they will have meaningful relationships with their children REGARDLESS of the opinion of the mother, when men have reproductive rights on par with women... then I will start to feel like some sanity has returned to our society.  Patriarchy/Matriarchy, Mysogony/Mysandry: it all looks the same to me, it's some idiot telling me what I am or what I should be... but I'll also be the first to admit that such bell curve outliers are necessary to a society.  If nothing else, reading sites like that (and this one on occasion) make me realize what a well adjusted guy I am.  The myopia of the radical fringe on both sides of the fence is nicely illustrated in a review of the radical responses from both sides (that site has a bunch of winners from the feminist side, and every MRA site has their share of our brand of radical).  What I find ENDLESSLY amusing is that radicals in all guises use EXACTLY the same tactics over and over again... and then get irate when the radicals on the other side do the same thing.  Take the bulk of the dross on that site and replace feminine references with masculine ones (and vice-versa) and you'd have stuff that's very close to some of the writing of the "Mad MRA's" that they're denigrating with such blind gusto.

It's a funny funny world we live in.  

[realman]

Yeah, what he (Dave K) just said.

I have no problem with women supporting stay at home dads as long as they're not doing so selfishly, i.e., because they would be free from the responsibility (as if women are typically held responsbile for much anyway or something? I mean, not held responsible for their actions, or supporting themselves, or supporting their family, or using good judegemnt, seems like they don't have too much to complain about in that arena).

Meanwhile, as a man I'm expected to support myself, support a family if I choose to have one, be held accounatble for my actions and choices and the full consequences thereof, etc. If I fuck up I'm a fuckup. If a woman fucks up she is a victim who needs to be coddled and shouldn't be blamed for her situation.

In a way I can see why women have gone along with all this...no stress, no accounatbility, nobody to answer to, no need to work any harder than you feel like. But on the other hand...there is a positive side to being independent, personally accountable, and competent. I don't think I'd want to be labelled a "victim" simply for being a man; even if women would rather give up these things in order to be giving special treatment. And I certainly wouldn't want to be given special treatment at the expense of others.

[The Gonzman]

Frankly I agree with her, I DO believe that both feminism and mens rights should be fighting for the same thing... equality.  

"Should be" are the operative words. Unfortunately it's only MRA's who are doing this, while the feminists - as usual - are just trying to weasel more stuff for women on the man's nickel.

Don't let Feminut propagandists bullshit you - it isn't, and never has been about real equality from that bunch, they always have tried to be "Equal for me, but not for thee."

[Alpha Male]

"Should be" are the operative words.

Exactly. This is not what I see them asking for when I read their sites/writings. This is not what I see when they friggin' refuse to acknowledge the injustices being committed against men. This is not what I see when they continue spewing man-hating dogma based on the lies they have concocted and when they attack anyone who debunks their statistics.

[scarbo]

I see neither side willing to openly acknowledge the power they each do indeed have and take advantage of.

Men, white men especially, do indeed enjoy power in today's society. It would be foolish to deny this.

Women do indeed enjoy power in today's society as well.

However, both men's and women's power derives from different sources, and represents power over different things.

In my view, both MRA's and feminists see the glass as half empty. Both sides have legitimate gripes about how they perceive they are treated (note my choice of words there) and how they actually are treated. But both sides refuse to acknowledge the power they do indeed have. Why? I believe that it's because they think that to acknowledge any power at all takes weight away from the claim that they are being or have been wronged.

Also, to acknowledge the power also opens the door to the discussion about eliminating, reducing, or sharing it. Both sides are clinging desperately to the power they know they have but won't admit they have.

[Bender]

Just because you equivocate the two does not make it so.  The MRAs are not the counterparts of the Feminists.  What you are really saying is that white men have gotten whatever power they have by unethical means.  Isn't that what you are really saying?

[woof]

Equality will never happen because we are not equal. Equal responsibility, equal respect for the strength of our differences, and how they compliment each other......yes, this has a chance.

[no2fembots]

Equality will never happen because we are not equal. Equal responsibility, equal respect for the strength of our differences, and how they compliment each other......yes, this has a chance.

Indeed, Woof.  Indeed.

The West, the greatest civilization that ever rose up on this planet will die long before we can ever achieve your vision - a vision shared by no2fembots.

Feminism has killed the West.  Recent reports of nearly all Western countries not replacing themselves - women not breeding and men quite rightly eschewing marriage - means an inevitable slide to oblivion.  Rome died, too.

The down side:  America is not likely to go silently into that good night: could be rough ride!

Good side: Women and men will see feminist vision for the artificial ideology it always was.  The empress never had any clothes!

It'll will be good to be king again! (Even in a post apocalyptic wasteland!)

:twisted:

[PaulGuelph]

I am lost!  :shock:

I clicked on the web counter and looked at where people are coming from. The I followed back to a site called "Daily Kos" http://dailykos.com/. It's hit counter says that 3 million people visited there this week!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But this "Daily Kos" looks really boring. I can't even figure out what it is supposed to be. Just a lot of small text designed to put people to sleep.

Where are all these 3 milllion people coming from??? I'm baffled. How do we get such traffic flow? I just feel like crawling back under my rock.

Is the men's movement missing all the web traffic? Why? How do we get it?