Anti-Men's Movement Page

Started by realman, May 18, 2005, 01:04 PM

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This page gives us an idea of the ideology that must be broken down in order for the men's movement to be taken seriously. She does make a few reasonable points (regarding such things as being responsible when it comes to sex/birth control) but in general she's basically spewing feminist drivel. I just thought some might find it of interest as it directly address the men's movement.

It is not too difficult to see that on most matters she only sees the female side of the coin, and pretty much says anything that takes the male prespective into account is whining or being "irresponsible". Please. Actually this could probably be considered a "trojan horse" (as per the other thread) tactic... she tries to appeal to men to not be whiney and irresponsible as a means of gaining support for her opinions...almost seems like she intend to make men believe she is "here to help them grow up" or something; she's also implying that if she says these men are whiny and irresponsible she must be correct.

There are whiny and irresponsible men out there, but asking for fairness in the courts, asking for an end to rampant female narcissism, and asking for an end to anti-male hate speech is not whining or being irresponsible.

I think the problem is both women and men are so used to women having the best of both worlds (i.e., keeping the good things from  traditional western society as well as the additions of feminism) and so used to the goverment's support of feminism that the populace at large doesn't even see it...they just automatically assume that for men to criticize women or deny accountability for that which they are not responsible for is to be "anti-woman" or to be "whining" and "irresponsible".


Just noticed she's also got pages addressing "nice guys" (wherein she blames guys with little experience with women for their porblems and denies that women did just as much to create the insecure lonely guys), and a page on 'romance" where she proclaims in sweeping generalization that men want an anorexic nymphomaniac wife who is "always ready to go".

Just thought I'd submit this as evidence of this being one deluded chick who has no problems saying men blame all their probelms on women or are responsible for all their own problems... yet NEVER ONCE acknowledges that she herself has issues for which she is blaming men! :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

And she still wants her opinion to be taken seriously...

The Biscuit Queen

My reply to her.

I just read your piece on the Men's Movement. I have been active in the men's movement for 3 years, to support my husband and two boys.

Your article was very selective, to say the least. You depended on half-truths and generalizations to make your points, which is very misleading for those who know little about the topic, and very silly for those of us that do know.

I will go through a few examples.
"This men's movement is all about getting out of their responsibilities."

This one really made me laugh, because you have neglected to mention the most active and vocal segment of men's activists, the father's rights movement. These are dads who have been shoved out of their children's lives by ex-spouses and biased judges, who may have been falsely accused of DV or child abuse, who only want the right to be with their children and be good fathers. This to me is not about getting out of responsibility, but wanting more.

"Meanwhile, most of these men would like to force women to have abortions, to get out of child support obligations."

You have no basis for this. This is you making a statement you cannot back up, then making an arguement based upon it. House of cards.

"Guys feel if women have the option to abort, they should have an out, too. So just for fun, let's pretend the pro-life movement grabbed a-hold of this idea and somehow convinced the government to outlaw abortions, since it's not "fair" to men."

What does outlawing abortions have to do with giving men choice as well? Again, you are making things up here.

"But let's also stop to think about all these children languishing in the foster care system. If people are so gung-ho to adopt, why are there so many kids in foster care (including babies)? And if there is anything wrong with the baby, it's even harder to find adoptive parents."

Nice try. There is a 5-7 year waiting list for a healthy baby in most states. Foster care is choked with older children, disabled or problem children, and crack babies. NOT the same thing.

"So let's say Jane gets pregnant, and her boyfriend, John, isn't thrilled. He even leaves her, calling her a whore and denying the kid is his. So now she has to decide: Should I have the baby or not?
Let's say Jane really loves children, and/or she is just very religious and doesn't want to have an abortion."

Just as often lets say Jane gets pregnant, doesn't want the baby, and John does want it. Too bad for John.

Or lets say Jane claims the baby is his, but  the paternaty test says it is not. (20%-30% of those tested are not the father.)

You are using an example which fits what you want to say, but is not the only, nor the probable, situation. Again, you are twisting half truths to fit your opinion.

"Meanwhile, John's social life is not suffering, one bit. In fact, his life hasn't changed at all. He's getting plenty of sleep, has no consequences at work, he has no extra housework or any childcare to do. All he has to do is write a check every month. How is that worse than what Jane is going through?"

Having 30% of your income gone a month is not going on as always, unless you are a millionaire. ANd what makes you think most fathers just have no problem not seeing their children? Have you looked at how many fathers cannot see their children because the mom likes it that way? Have you looked at how many moms move on to another boyfriend, shutting dad out of the kids life? Again, you are taking one example that suits you and ignoring the rest of life.

"Why do so many people automatically believe HIS story, vs. hers?"

Where did you come up with that? They do NOT believe his story over hers. Try looking at any media coverage of like cases with opposite sex roles. The man is assumed guilty until proven innocent, the woman is given all sorts of sympathy.

I think that is enough examples. It is a good thing you label your pieces opinion, because that is all they are. It is sad that you either did not do your homework before spouting off, or that you really know how misleading your article is and you did it anyways.

I have no probelm with you having a strong opinion, and putting it out there. I do have a problem with you misrepresenting something so badly. That is lying, and it is wrong no matter who does it or why.
he Biscuit Queen

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.


Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah!

Just more drivel blaming men for wanting fairness in a system that treats men and their jobs as free money to close state budgets. No where does she address issues from a male perspective. But then again I am not surprised.


You can't honestly tell me that John is the one with the bigger burden here. You can't compare writing a check every month to the actual hard work Jane puts in every day being an actual parent!

"Actual hard work" LMAO. As long as single women believe they can do the job of both parents....with up to 50% of the fathers after tax income of course, all the while acting like ostriches as at least the last 3or 4 generations of children are so screwed up because their parenting skills are so lacking and ineffective as they turn children into latch key kids or day care uncontrollables, or medicated zombies as child are finding it harder and harder to adjust. I have yet to hear any of them admit they are a not a good parent or that they lack the necessary skills to parent.

As for her discounting the gold diggers and the biological clock ticking selfish females....well, it's easy to see whose interest she has in mind.

One last point before stepping down for my soapbox . Why do some women feel that a man should be satisfied to have at the most 2 weekends a month and call that effective parenting, seems to me that like the US possession island of Puerto Rico some women take the money with a wink and have no intentions of giving up or sharing control but thank you very much for the $$$.

The system is broken and needs to be fixed so that women are force to accept responsibility for their choices instead of always blaming men and playing the helpless victim.



BQ, did you actually send that reply to her? If so, bravo! and let us know if and how she responds.

You know, in reference to her "nice guys" rant... while it is true that some nice guys have severe insecurities and so forth, some are just nice guys who are more or elss avergae looking with decent but unremarkable incomes that would rather read than ride a crotch rocket at 40 above the posted speed limit nad perhaps do not have the entertaining "charisma" (entertainemnt value? rescue from slef? I don;t know, I'm starting to think a lot of the "charismatic" people are really just jerks in disguise so that seems to squash her issue with "nice guys" being jerks in disguise) that seems to attract women (never did understand why talking the talk got so much attention; I personally am more interested in who they really are under the surface than if they can do a great stand-up routine and be the life of the party).

Here's a counter-theory to why women don't like nice guys: a genuinely nice guy (not a doormat) with decent self-esteem (not insecure) will demand RECIPROCITY for his efforts, caring, gestures, sacrifices, compromises, and will hold her ACCOUNTABLE for herself and her actions etc.

WILD THOUGHT: maybe many women don't like "nice guys" becuase they don't want to have to be caring, make efforts, make sacrifices, make compromises, and take responsibility; much easier to be self-centered with someone who maybe doens't give a whole lot but also demands little in return; much easier to blame a guy with some "jerk" qualities when things in the relationship start to go south or when she decides to end the realtionship; I wonder if women really are simply avoiding the sacrifices, comprmises, and effort neccessary for a healthy loving relationship by avoiding "nice guys"? :?:

In closing, I guess women who go for bad boys are kind of like guys who never stop going after the busty blonde in the bikini with an IQ of 4; the only difference is everyone considers those guys to be shallow and immature.

dr e

This lady, like most good feminists is great entertainment. I loved this part where she refers to the beginnings of feminism:

It wasn't about taking something AWAY from men in the process, it was just trying to make ourselves equal to men, as much as possible. If there were some unintended side effects (such as a woman got a job, and it got a man fired so she could take his job) -- it wasn't a deliberate act. It was *never* about forcing men out of jobs and into poverty because we wanted our lives to be easier.

I laughed hard on this one.  It wasn't a deliberate act!  They didn't really mean to take his widdle job.  Ah but now that the tables may turn even the slightest bit she sees men's rights as taking away from women.  Those nasty men's rights adtivists only want to take things away from women!  

She gives it away in her first paragraph when she tells everyone that she is doing everything in her power to avoid taking responsibilty.  Then later on she projects it all on those pesky men's activists:


There is nothing about "equal" rights going on here. It's just about wanting permission to be irresponsible.

What she lacks in perceptiveness or logic she makes up in humor.  She's a stitch!
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

The Biscuit Queen

Yes, I did send that. I doubt it will make her comments page, but you never know. I will let you know what she says. It is really funny, if you look at her first page, she claims that she reads the info, uses logic, then makes up her own mind. Yet what she is trying to pass off as logic wouldn't get her a D in fifth grade. It isn't logic, it is ranting. I think she throws in all that anti-baby stuff to make her sound less feminine, yet she argues like a girl (if I can use a childhood phrase here.)

Another 30 minutes wasted I guess, but at least it is amusing.
he Biscuit Queen

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.


Quote from: "Dr Evil"
She's a stitch!

I was thinking something similar, only I was gonna replace the letters "st" with something else.  (Yes, I realize that might merit me a warning, but it's almost worth it, LOL!)
i] We drank our toast to innocence,
We drank our toast to now.
We tried to reach beyond the emptiness,
But neither one knew how. [/i]


I read about 1/2 of her RANT and couldn't stomach any more.

Not even gonna reply to her, she's so lost in her own little world.

'Watch our backs at home, we'll guard the wall over here. You can sleep safe tonight, we'll guard the door."

Isaiah 6:8
"Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"


Meanwhile, the men's movement is about taking back some of the rights women won. They want to go back to the days before paternity tests....

Which would explain why the Men's Rights boards go ballistic every time another state or country bans DNA/paternity testing without the mother's permission.

Where on earth did she get the idea that MRA's are against paternity testing? I'm all for making cuckolding a crime!
Are you a man?', that's what she asked, as if I were wearing a man mask. -- Sean Altman

The Biscuit Queen

:lol: This was her reply!

I read just a few sentences of your email and my first impression was, "Wow, this lady is toxic!"  I seriously hope you don't speak to your children the way you speak to people online. All I did was dare to have a different opinion than you did.  I hate to see what you'd do if your kid spilled Kool-aid on the carpet!!

Normally I'd enjoy a good debate about one of my opinions, but it's obvious from the tone of your email, you aren't going to take anything that disagrees with your opinion seriously.  I'd be a fool to waste my time trying to have a mature debate with someone who has already made up her mind and dismissed me as a joke.   I don't have a problem with you disliking me or my opinions.  If everyone agreed, this would be a boring world.  I wouldn't put my opinions out there if I didn't want a debate.  But there is no need for insults in a debate.  I could reply to your email by stooping to your level and call you names and mocking your opinions -- but then where would we be?  That's no way to solve and issue or come to an understanding!  

And to be honest, how can I take YOU seriously when you can't even debate in a mature manner?  Just in the first few sentences alone, you'd already said I was silly, a liar, and oh yea, a big joke that you were laughing at.  Right there that shows you won't take anything seriously.  You don't want a debate, you want to put me down.

You claim you have been active in this movement for three years, and this is how they've taught you to respond to anyone who disagrees with you?  Great spokes person you are.  This only proves my point about the men's movement -- it's not based on maturity at all!  Why should a guy try to reach an agreement with the mother of his child when it's much easier to call her a lying slut and dismiss her as being silly?  Don't you see how ridiculous that is?

Then you launch into a tirade about the poor, downtrodden men being abused by the system.  If you had actually read my article, you'd see that I AGREE with you -- the system is broken and it's not fair.  People need to focus their efforts on trying to fix the system, not find ways to circumvent it.  

For the record, this is just a website. If it really upsets you this much, you can click the back button.  I can't believe how tight your knickers got wound up over this one website. You better not explore the rest of the web or you might not survive.

When you are ready to discuss this matter maturely, like an adult, and not talk to me in your "angry mommy voice" you're welcome to come back. But please try to play nice next time.  Please bring some facts with you, too, since calling me a liar looks pretty silly when you can't even prove it.

My  wish to you is that I honestly hope that people treat your children with more respect than you've shown to me.   If I treated your children half as snottily as you've behaved towards me, you'd be going ape-shit right now.  Just think of the kind of world you are creating for your children when you can't even be civil to strangers.  

Good luck,

My reply:


Boy, I didn't realize that someone who posted her opinion on-line and asked for feedback would get so upset over someone doing as she asked-reading and responding to her articles. Can I ask why you post them if you do not want anyone disagreeing with them?

Why did you respond to me if you didn't bother to read the letter? I was not snotty, or catty, and I certainly am not toxic, what I did was call you on your use of 'facts' upon which you  formed your opinion. Your facts were not facts at all, they were half truths or selective use of examples. Not only did I disagree with you, but I took the time to carefully read what you wrote and explain WHY I disagree with you. Generally, that is known as the respectful way of debating.

You said:
"Just in the first few sentences alone, you'd already said I was silly, a liar, and oh yea, a big joke that you were laughing at.  Right there that shows you won't take anything seriously.  You don't want a debate, you want to put me down."

I had written:
"Your article was very selective, to say the least. You depended on half-truths and generalizations to make your points, which is very misleading for those who know little about the topic, and very silly for those of us that do know. "

What I said was that depending on half truths and generalizations was silly. I did not say you personally were silly.  If you choose to take that as a personal insult it is not my problem.

"This one really made me laugh, because you have neglected to mention the most active and vocal segment of men's activists, the father's rights movement.his one really made me laugh, because you have neglected to mention the most active and vocal segment of men's activists, the father's rights movement."

What I was taking as a joke was the idea that you claim that men simply want out of responsibility, yet if you had done 5 minutes of Google search you would have found out what I just said. It made it clear to me you did not do your homework. The not doing the homework is funny, considering that you claim to "analyze everything, and weigh things logically, and then I form my opinion," but if you do not bother to gather all the information then that really isn't true. So the not doing the homework is funny, not you personally. But if you want to take that personally, again, not my problem.

Since you didn't bother to read or respond to anything I actually said, I don't know what else to say. I guess I can assume that I hit the nail on the head or you would have a riposte based on debate.  Instead you are falling back on name calling and insults. I think most of your insults are projection, if you read your e-mail it is seething with sarcasm, insults, and personal jibes at my parenting skills. But if it makes you feel better to do so, I certainly do not mind. After all, it is just the internet. Just keeping it all in perspective.

Jen K
he Biscuit Queen

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.


I think part of the problem is that for most people it's "black and white"- you either support women OR you support men. There can be gray area in which women are sometimes right, men are sometimes right, some things are unfair to women, and some thing unfair to men. Either your a feminist or you hate women, in their eyes. Unfortunately this is pretty commonplace.

Good effort Jen, although as we know debating someone who only can see one side of an issue is usually not productive. Like with the "sperm stealing" issue... she assumes that no woman would ever do this, if a man says she did he's lying, and if a man can't trust a sex partner not to he shouldn't have sex with her. No consideration for the fact that women too can like, be deceptive, or have ulterior motives... to her women are pure white as the driven snow and can do no wrong.


Oops that was supposed to say women can "lie, ne deceptive. etc." not "like"!

The Biscuit Queen

Pretty funny, that she claims she is not a feminist, but you really could fool me.
he Biscuit Queen

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.


Nice job BQ.  8)

She became hostile and defensive pretty quickly didn't she? :shock: I guess logical debates with the likes of her would be out of the question. :roll:
Feminism is the product of female selfishness, compounded by male chivalry.

- Peter Zohrab -

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