Women are still a closed book to men

Started by alien, May 28, 2005, 08:33 PM

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alien

Quote
Women are still a closed book to men

Research shows men mainly read works by other men

David Smith
Sunday May 29, 2005
The Observer

Men have finally realised what they are missing, but they still aren't all that keen to do anything about it.

This is the conclusion of a study into sex differences in reading habits, which found that, while women read the works of both sexes, men stick to books written by men. And the boys can no longer use ignorance as an excuse.

'Men clearly now know that there are some great books by women - such as Andrea Levy's Small Island - they really ought to have read and ought to consider "great" (or at least good) writing,' the report said. 'They recognise the titles and they've read the reviews. They may even have bought, or been given the books, and start reading them. But they probably won't finish them.'

The research was carried out by academics Lisa Jardine and Annie Watkins of Queen Mary College, London, to mark the 10th year of the Orange Prize for Fiction, a literary honour whose women-only rule provoked righteous indignation when the competition was founded. They asked 100 academics, critics and writers and found virtually all now supported the prize.

But a gender gap remains in what people choose to read, at least among the cultural elite. Four out of five men said the last novel they read was by a man, whereas women were almost as likely to have read a book by a male author as a female. When asked what novel by a woman they had read most recently, a majority of men found it hard to recall or could not answer. Women, however, often gave several titles. The report said: 'Men who read fiction tend to read fiction by men, while women read fiction by both women and men.

'Consequently, fiction by women remains "special interest", while fiction by men still sets the standard for quality, narrative and style.'

In the survey, men were asked to name the 'most important' book by a woman written in the last two years. Brick Lane by Monica Ali and Carol Shields's Unless were frequently among the replies, but many men admitted defeat and confessed they had no idea. At least one who suggested Brick Lane admitted he had not read it.

The report added: 'Men's reading habits have altered very little since the Orange Prize burst onto the fiction scene in 1996.

Although no one would admit that the gender of the author had any influence on their choice of fictional reading-matter, men were still far less likely to have read a novel by a woman than by a man, whereas women read titles by either.

'Pressed for a preference, many men also found it much more difficult to "like" or "admire" a novel authored by a woman - for them "great" writing was male writing (oh - apart from Jane Austen, of course),' the report said.

'No wonder, then, that each year when the winner of the Orange Prize is announced a chorus of disappointment goes up from "mainstream" critics: how could such an undistinguished book have won?'

A decade ago the Orange Prize drew the scorn of many leading writers, including Kingsley Amis ('If I were a woman, I would not want to win this prize. One can hardly take the winner seriously'), and AS Byatt ('I am against anything which ghettoises women. That is my deepest feminist emotion").

The prize is now estab lished just behind the Man Booker and the Whitbread in the literary hierarchy and had huge support among survey respondents, although some still expressed ambivalence. Julie Burchill said: 'I see where it's coming from but totally understand the reasons why women don't want their novels to be entered for it.'

Jardine said: 'When pressed, men are likely to say things like: "I believe Monica Ali's Brick Lane is a really important book - I'm afraid I haven't read it." I find it most endearing that in 10 years what male readers of fiction have done is learn to pretend that they've read women's books.'

This year's £30,000 Orange Prize will be awarded on 7 June.

Harry Potter I believe was written by a single mum - so what about in the areas of children's books?

I would say, generally speaking, that men's lack of interest in regards to women's writting is comparable to men's non-interest in women's sports (excluding dads and their daughter's sports and recreations, of course).

I've only read one sci-fi book written by a woman - and that was several years ago. It was written by Anne McCaffrey and was called "Nimisha's Ship." I liked parts - but found that a lot of areas suffered from the usual PC (political correctness), where whatever a man can do - a woman can do better.

I'm sure in passing I did read that certain educational institutions were going to force a 50/50 gender split on authored reading materials? Might have been UK or AUS - not sure.

LST

Malehating feminazi bullshit.
I bet most of those woman-written books that women read are romance novels and autobiographies and other such things. And many could look out on purpose to find books written by women.
But instead they are making it seem like men don't read books written by female authors on purpose, because they are misogynists.

See, in every little thing feminazis are trying to create the gender war effect.
"Look how stupid and sexist those males are, they avoid woman-written books, only male authors are good enough for them."

This way feminazis fuel "gender nationalism" among women.

(But when I say this, it doesn't mean that I agree that feminism is mainly responsible for female sexism and misandry. I still stand by my words that feminism is more of an effect than a cause. The real cause is in the way parents raise girls and in genetics.)
o pity for feminazis.

Bobx23456

Quote from: "alien"
Quote
Women are still a closed book to men

Research shows men mainly read works by other men

David Smith
Sunday May 29, 2005
The Observer

Men have finally realised what they are missing, but they still aren't all that keen to do anything about it.

This is the conclusion of a study into sex differences in reading habits, which found that, while women read the works of both sexes, men stick to books written by men. And the boys can no longer use ignorance as an excuse.

'Men clearly now know that there are some great books by women - such as Andrea Levy's Small Island - they really ought to have read and ought to consider "great" (or at least good) writing,' the report said. 'They recognise the titles and they've read the reviews. They may even have bought, or been given the books, and start reading them. But they probably won't finish them.'

The research was carried out by academics Lisa Jardine and Annie Watkins of Queen Mary College, London, to mark the 10th year of the Orange Prize for Fiction, a literary honour whose women-only rule provoked righteous indignation when the competition was founded. They asked 100 academics, critics and writers and found virtually all now supported the prize.

But a gender gap remains in what people choose to read, at least among the cultural elite. Four out of five men said the last novel they read was by a man, whereas women were almost as likely to have read a book by a male author as a female. When asked what novel by a woman they had read most recently, a majority of men found it hard to recall or could not answer. Women, however, often gave several titles. The report said: 'Men who read fiction tend to read fiction by men, while women read fiction by both women and men.



Men who write tend to write about actions and events.  Women who write tend to write about relationships and finding a husband.  From "Little Women" to the latest romance novel most women's fiction is about relationship and mate selecting.  

Men are largely uninterested in the nuances of female relationships and female mate selection.   Men tend to be more interested in events and actions.

Women tend to be more interested in relationships and selecting mates than in actions and events.  

The result is that men tend to read more books by men, and women tend to read more books by women.  When you count women's books you need to include the 25,000,000 romance novels that women buy and read every month.  

But you are right, sometimes women do get tired of a stead diet of relationships and mate selecting and read books written by men.  

Quote
'Consequently, fiction by women remains "special interest", while fiction by men still sets the standard for quality, narrative and style.'


After all, men generally do better than women in every endeavor and profession.  

Women buy and read sevearal times as many books as men.  Women have more time to read and more discretionary money to spend than men on average.  Like most other areas of life, women are dominant in the marketplace.  

Bob

Catch more of The World according to Bob at:  http://bobstruth.blogspot.com/
Catch more of The World According to Bob at:  http://bobstruth.blogspot.com

It's time for men to retake our natural and age old leadership position.

The Biscuit Queen

Robin Hobb is an excellent woman fanstasy writer. My husband really likes her too. Women tend to write on subjects which interest them, as do men. The problem is that what men write is interesting to both, while what women write is usually only interesting to women. That is not a "gender gap" (I hate that term) that is just reality. If women want to cross over into the male market, like Robin Hobb has, they need to appeal to men's sense of interest-plot, action, good male characters, and a lack of moral relativism.   If a male author subjugated or mistreated all his female characters, I would bet not many women would read him either. Men do not usually have the need to do that where as women authors do.
he Biscuit Queen
www.thebiscuitqueen.blogspot.com

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.

Roy

The absence of male interest in modern female writers may be far more simply explained than analyzing plot, narrative, or genre.

It may be that contemporary female writers have been schooled in feminist women's studies (navel-gazing) departments, and have elected to write "in a different voice," (thanks Carol Gilligan for another useless concept..), and they simply have no universal (as in --- relating directly to all humankind) ideas.

If female literature has become an intellectual ghetto, one need look no further than the foundation for all thought .... philosophy.

A quick Google search on "famous female philosophers" produced the following "Top" titles from amazon.com --


(All 2320 results for Women in Philosophy) -- ranked by sales ---

The Hip Chick's Guide to Macrobiotics: A Philosophy for Achieving a Radiant Mind and a Fabulous Body
by Jessica Porter

Gender Basics: Feminist Perspectives on Women and Men
by Anne Minas

The Multi-Orgasmic Woman : Discover Your Full Desire, Pleasure, and Vitality
by Mantak Chia,

Women and Human Development
by Martha C. Nussbaum

Women's Lives, Women's Legacies: Passing Your Beliefs and Blessings to Future Generations: Creating Your Own Spiritual-Ethical Will
by Rachael Freed

Loose Women, Lecherous Men: A Feminist Philosophy of Sex
by Linda Lemoncheck


Do the search yourself, and look for any evidence that women writers understand anything other than gender-restricted thought. (i.e. - NON-THOUGHT.)

No Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, Hume, Kant, Russell, Dewey, Locke, Jefferson ...  anywhere to be found.

"Female philosophy!"

Gosh, an entire liberated gender missed the whole point!

"It's not just about MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE..."

Well, the literature in the check-out lines at WalMart suggests otherwise...

The latest is something about "the philosophy of Desperate Housewives..."
It's a terrible thing ... living in fear." (Roy - hunted replicant. "Blade Runner.")

LST

Hmm... true. The huge army of feminazis that read nonsense feminazi books must skew the statistics too.
o pity for feminazis.

Gabriel

BS, Ayn Rand.

Stallywood

As far as I am concerned, this whole report is bullshit. I know when I go out looking for books, I dont give a f**k what sex wrote it; I care about the story, what it is about. If women write a lot of boring shit, dont blame it on men if we dont want to read it. But I would wager that worth while books written by women, have no problems getting read by men.

Stally
Gentleman is a man who consciously serves women. I prefer the golden rule.

Behind every great man, is a
parasite.

Women who say men won't commit, usually aren't worth committing to.

woof

Quote from: "Stallywood"
As far as I am concerned, this whole report is bullshit. I know when I go out looking for books, I dont give a f**k what sex wrote it; I care about the story, what it is about. If women write a lot of boring shit, dont blame it on men if we dont want to read it. But I would wager that worth while books written by women, have no problems getting read by men.

Stally


I agree with you Stally. Although I have read some books by women that I admit to being turned off by them trying to put women in mens roles and vise-versa, I hate all of the forced equallity BS.
Even a whole village can't replace dad, children need both parents.

bukowski

When I'm looking for a good book to read more often I'm not looking at the author.  So if I find a book that looks interesting and it happens to be written by a woman chances are that I'll give it a chance.  I've read the first Harry Potter and found it entertaining and some day I'll probably read the second one...But at the same time, I'm also weary of female authors because I've too often found that they quite often write about themselves as being a woman, and that being a focal point.  Not just that though, but also oblivious, and without care, about the male pov.

Like this one book I started said something about how Jesus crucifiction was so shocking and such a big deal because it happened to a man.  Of course women were the ones crucified, and stoned, and burned, and Goddesses were just always dying for our sins....Men have it soooo easy!

When I do notice the author is a woman I always wonder if it's got feminist PC bs that I'd have to wade through.  It's not that I'm uninterested in a book about a woman and her pov.  It's just that it's so often written as the female character being the pov of women as a group or something.  That's boring.

devia

Larry's Party by Carol Shields is the best book I've read speaking as the opposite gender by a woman in the last while. Whenever I read a book from an author that is able to dig their sticky fingers eloquently into the opposite gender I am very impressed.

I'm kicking myself right now because I've recently cleaned out the bookshelves and can't give a great opposite (male author speaking in a female voice) knowing that I read one lately. If only I hadn't lived through the 80's my recall would be better eh?


My husband reads Russian novelists (Dostoevsky, Chekov, etc). While I've read them and can appreciate the stories I often find them dry and self absorbed (wrong wording, not sure how to say that they just don't do it for me).

I like personal experience and historic novels and biographies, I like the feeling one gets sometimes of being transported back into someone else's world for a time.

Gary Jennings, "Aztec" would rate amongst my all time favorites (yeah I know he took huge liberty and he wasn't a literary genius but so what).  I could list a hundred titles and they would be a mix of male and female authors.

When I first met Corey one of the first things he said to me was "I've never read a John Grisham novel and I never intend to". Nor Stephen King, etc, etc, etc. That comment was a great part of my feeling of "love at first sight".

I hate to knock those people who actually read anything at all (better then nothing) but there is a huge difference between "pulp fiction" and indulging in literary candy. You don't have to be a book snob to walk into a chapters and grab a bunch of bargain not top 10 books and start reading some great things.

And everyone should read every Tom Robbins book. But that goes without saying.

Buddy-Rey

This is a great topic!  Truthfully, I haven't read a book penned by a female author in ages and I think it was the first Harry Potter book.  But it isn't that I go out book-shopping looking for male authors only.  It just seems that most of the books written by females seem to be directed TO females and females only, so I never find one with a broad enough demographic to actually reach me.  Plus, most of what I read is classic literature.  Besides the latest current-event scandal novels by Al Franken and Michael Moore, I haven't read a historically recent book in ages.

My favorite authors are Dumas, Twain, Doyle, Poe, etc.  All of those old dudes.  Back then, the world of literature was almost completely male, so not a lot of great female authors from back then to enjoy.  Right now, I am in the middle of a fantastic book by one of the few successful female authors of the pre-feminism era, maybe even one of the best books I've ever read; "The Scarlet Pimpernel" by Baroness Orczy.

typhonblue

How about a better title for this article?

Female Authors Not Gender Inclusive : When women write they write only for other women, neglecting the literary needs of men and promoting gender exclusivity.

Acksiom

Quote from: "The Biscuit Queen"
Robin Hobb is an excellent woman fanstasy writer.


I'll dispute that.  Can't stand her.

But OTOH, as far as excellent female fantasy authors go, there's Brenda Clough, C. J. Cherryh, and of course the incomparable P. C. Hodgell.

Oh, and Katherine Kerr, Marion Zimmer Bradley, and while I've never really been able to get into Andre Norton's stuff -- our mental frameworks are just too different or something -- I can certainly respect her craft.

And Three Last Words:  Lois McMaster Bujold.

I suspect, however, that the article is just yet another a case of literary jerkoff snobtards sniffing "But that's not real fiction," and trying to sell newspapers by playing up to people's femelitist victim-status prejudices.
ck!
Non Illegitimi Carborundum, and KOT!

LST

Quote from: "bukowski"
Like this one book I started said something about how Jesus crucifiction was so shocking and such a big deal because it happened to a man.  Of course women were the ones crucified, and stoned, and burned, and Goddesses were just always dying for our sins....Men have it soooo easy!

Hmm... at first this thing seemed like stupid and relativelty harmless feminist crap. But then I thought more about it.
Does this woman that wrote it have an IQ of 50 ?
Or, is she intentionally pretending ?
Everyone knows that women's suffering gets more sympathy from people.
And male characters being tortured/maimed/killed is a much less offensive thing than female characters suffering the same. Just look at american movies for proof.

So why would the author say this ?
It is a malicious lie to fuel the "gender nationalism" of the less bright among women.

Feminists are truly insidious.
o pity for feminazis.

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