Goodbye Feminism

Started by angryharry, Aug 21, 2005, 10:17 AM

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Julian

Quote from: "natalie clifford barney

Once again, it's about who builds the most impressive structure, uses the most dangerous tools, and is in the most dangerous workspace?



But we have put up with years and years of your whinging.. Isn't it about time you started to listen a bit more?

FP

Quote from: "natalie clifford barney"

Can a woman play in the Masters? How many women are in boardrooms, in Congress? Yes we can run, but we are at a huge disadvantage. The good ole boy network frequently encourages the candidates it wants to run, and they aren't women.


Can men play in the LPGA? Can a man join a "women only" gym like women fought to be able to join men only gyms (thus pretty much taking them out of the market). Can male sportscasters go into the female locker rooms to interview female athletes? What abot the good ol sister network in Human Resources? Ever worked in an office with mostly women? They don't have their cliques? Yeah, the political  parties pick more men, they pick who toes their line and who they think will get them votes.


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How many men do you see worrying over whether they can have a career *and* a family? How many men walk down a dark and deserted street and worry if a woman suddenly is walking behind him? Tell me about property inheritance rights in some Islamic countries... how they treat women who are raped... would you support a simple amendment to the American Constitution that says men and women are equal? What of baby girls slaughtered in China? Is Linda Loaiza being treated justly in Latin America?


Seriously? Given the past 10-20 years, I'm betting a lot worry about it. Many of us Gen X and Y types grew up in broken homes or witnessed it with others worry. I don't fear marriage, I fear divorce because it seems that if I don't hand over the reins completely to my wife, she can and human nature being what it is, will likely ruin me. Many worry about a balance of providing for the family but not being a workaholic to pay the bills for the wife's desires.

I'm not worried about a woman behind me, unless I perceive her to be acting in a threatening manner (say if she fit a "punk" stereotype or high on drugs), same as if a man did that. Also, the constitution already says we're all equal, although with legislation like VAWA apparently some are more equal than others.

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Are men who run for office routinely dissed for what they wear and their overall appearance? Do you routinely use the word feminazi? Why? How about being asked to wear form fitting clothes and to wear make up at work? How many men suffer unwanted advances? We won't even go into domestic abuse and rape statistics, and before you go ballistic, I fully recognise that the vast, vast majority of men are not abusers or rapists. Pornography is primarily of women, and it is primarily viewed by men, though I certainly know dykes that are not adverse!


No, men aren't dissed for what they wear usually. I don't "diss" women politicians if they aren't looking absolutely perfect. I diss them if I think they're full of shit.  Fashion sense, I've long been told is something women have and very few men have. Women seem to be the one's hung up on dissing people for what they wear. Most men don't care too much (except perhaps if the person looks like a total idiot :)). I care about what he's saying not that he's a slick willie in a nice armani.

Pornography (as in the visual kind) is primarily viewed by men.. yes. What is pornography though? What is smut? What about romance novels that many women love? Women lean towards the emotional side of romance/sex, men lean towards the physical/visual. That doesn't mean that men and women only think that way. I'm frankly tired of being stereotyped that all I care about is Tn'A. Keep treating me like that and it'll come true because I'll finally realize that if I'm being castigated as a dog, I may as well act like one and enjoy what I can.

Mr Benn

Russ,

I've found through the years that its largely a waste of time discussing gender issues with womyn online. This is because, as you point out, they always *claim* that their experience is different to what your talking about.

"Oh but *I'M* not like that!"

They cry!

The conversation is also always brought back to THEM. Their personal circumstances. Their life.

Most of them are bi-sexual or in traditional male jobs and have a chip on their shoulder against all heterosexual women not being enough like them.
ww.CoolTools4Men.com

Russ2d

Angry Harry-

That picture is the best damn example of 'equality' I've seen in a long time !!!

HAHA !

Mr Benn

Notice how this feminist womyn is trying to mock men for their competitive nature.

But think of it like this: Do we want our economies to be composed of people who are competitive about their work or not?

What happens when an economy composed mainly of competitive workers enters into competition with an economy composed mainly of non-competitive workers?

How does civilisation advance without the competitive spirit of man?
ww.CoolTools4Men.com

Russ2d

I hear you Mr. Benn,

I've been around the game a long time and I have actually taking the time to read through a lot of their material. Forget sources and facts, forget logic or even obvious reality... putting aside the idiot followers that just vomit the usual feminist mantras (our problems are the patriarchy blah blah), the leadership is comprised of individuals who I would diagnose has having severe ego/identity problems.

Their enemy is nature and the very existence of gender. They don't identify with female characteristics but covet male characterisitics of direct power. They are about sex reversal which is why they abhor masculine men and feminine women. Give them a feminine man and a masculine woman and they are all smiles and laughter.

I think it was Patricia Ireland that admitted that over 40% of NOW was lesbian.

Lesbianism is the result of a fetal developmental error- cells orienting in reverse in response to androgen hormone which should not have been present.

I'd feel sorry for them if they weren't such A-holes.

bukowski

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So this *is* all about thumping your chests and tarzan yells... hmmm. My point is I have such skill and many other women do as well. Is there some badge of honour for working in contruction over some other trade? Does it make one more manly? Are men forced into such labour, and that is why the issue is raised?

The fact is women do do more domestic work, even if both work full time jobs. It has narrowed in recent years, but the numbers aren't there yet. Women work to support families every bit as much as men do.






Someone asked you about the disparity between men and women getting sick, injuried and killed at work and you reply saying you've done such and such work on a house, and know a friend who has as well.

My point was that just because I wash dishes and know how to sew, does not therefore change the fact that women do, what feminists define as "domestic" work, more so than men.  

You pointing at some construction work you've done does nothing to change the fact men make up most work related injuries, sickness, and deaths.

Then you turned it into me (who claimed to know how to sew) thumping my chest with tarzan yells.

Okay....

ray

Quote from: "Mr Benn"
Notice how this feminist womyn is trying to mock men for their competitive nature.

But think of it like this: Do we want our economies to be composed of people who are competitive about their work or not?

What happens when an economy composed mainly of competitive workers enters into competition with an economy composed mainly of non-competitive workers?

How does civilisation advance without the competitive spirit of man?




it does not

witch is a major reason why ours is regressing

bukowski

If the "sex industry" is 'exploitive' then why not all industry?  {notice~men make up more than 90% of all work related injuries, sickness, and deaths-- whereas-- in the "sex industry", worker's bodies are usually simply naked in a picture or movie, for a man to buy and release sexual tension.}  

And if men only make up most injuries, sickness and deaths because of the work they choose, then how is it possible that those in the "sex industry" are not choosing that kind of work too?  

And if all industry is exploitive then why is it that women are given a special status of those who are exploited?  Especially when it's men's bodies that are mostly damaged, or killed, in industry.

{also, by the way, I am not a supporter of capitalism....or marxism for that  matter}

natalie clifford barney

Can men play in the LPGA? Can a man join a "women only" gym like women fought to be able to join men only gyms (thus pretty much taking them out of the market). Can male sportscasters go into the female locker rooms to interview female athletes? What abot the good ol sister network in Human Resources? Ever worked in an office with mostly women? They don't have their cliques? Yeah, the political  parties pick more men, they pick who toes their line and who they think will get them votes.

Reasonable questions, and point taken on the LPGA. Male sportscasters should take that particular issue up with the individual sports. Personally, I'd rather all reporters stay out of locker rooms and have an interview room for this purpose.

Seriously? Given the past 10-20 years, I'm betting a lot worry about it. Many of us Gen X and Y types grew up in broken homes or witnessed it with others worry. I don't fear marriage, I fear divorce because it seems that if I don't hand over the reins completely to my wife, she can and human nature being what it is, will likely ruin me. Many worry about a balance of providing for the family but not being a workaholic to pay the bills for the wife's desires.

That is a very jaded view of marriage. Most divorces are initiated by women for one reason... the person they married was not in fact who they were married to later. Men dislike many things women like, but women go into marriage thinking the man who has been wooing them is representative... nope, not, he's been romantic to win her over. When a man not inclined to open up and communicate what is inside reaches this point, he withdraws and frustrates the heck out of his partner.

Partners need space, men and women both... it's healthy to pursue one's own interests... but at the end of the day, sharing of that day is a good thing. Sharing of fears, dreams, frustrations, of sadness happiness... and being empathetic to her in return.. these things help build a strong relationship.



I'm not worried about a woman behind me, unless I perceive her to be acting in a threatening manner (say if she fit a "punk" stereotype or high on drugs), same as if a man did that. Also, the constitution already says we're all equal, although with legislation like VAWA apparently some are more equal than others.

VAWA uis an unfortunate title, and it would be wise to expand it to include men, though it tacitly already does, the title works against such inclusion... and it doesn't help men run like the wind from admitting they are abused. Women do as well, but think women are more inclined to speak up now.


No, men aren't dissed for what they wear usually. I don't "diss" women politicians if they aren't looking absolutely perfect. I diss them if I think they're full of shit.  Fashion sense, I've long been told is something women have and very few men have. Women seem to be the one's hung up on dissing people for what they wear. Most men don't care too much (except perhaps if the person looks like a total idiot :)). I care about what he's saying not that he's a slick willie in a nice armani.

In my experience, the Janet Reno's, Hillary Clintons, and Katherine Harris' of this world are dissed for their appearance, unlike men... and yes, women do occasionally do this as well, but it is usually men I hear or see making off colour remarks about them.

Pornography (as in the visual kind) is primarily viewed by men.. yes. What is pornography though? What is smut? What about romance novels that many women love? Women lean towards the emotional side of romance/sex, men lean towards the physical/visual. That doesn't mean that men and women only think that way. I'm frankly tired of being stereotyped that all I care about is Tn'A. Keep treating me like that and it'll come true because I'll finally realize that if I'm being castigated as a dog, I may as well act like one and enjoy what I can.[/quote]

There is nothing wrong with being visual, but there is also a line that is crossed that takes it from visual to objectification... which is not a good thing, it dehumanises. Men and women have to be more respectful of each other. I certainly try like hell to do so, even though men are not a big part of my world... i.e don't date men, etc. There are certainly men in this world who are very dear to me.
o im gonna grab my soul
And leave my ego at the door
I'm gonna open up my eyes
So, c'mon sing along if ya wanna
Cry if ya hafta
Lean back into your lover's arms
Grab the hand of the person
Standing right next to you
Show them we are not afraid of who we are

~ Melissa Ferrick

bukowski

Quote
There is nothing wrong with being visual, but there is also a line that is crossed that takes it from visual to objectification... which is not a good thing, it dehumanises. Men and women have to be more respectful of each other. I certainly try like hell to do so, even though men are not a big part of my world...





Is the fact that men are in the type of jobs that do most damage to their bodies, sometimes to the point of and early death, not objectification of men's bodies?

And if it is, does this not show the sexism of the feminists when they care more about men looking at naked pictures of women, than they do about men being hurt and killed at work?

Mr Benn

Most heterosexual women WANT to be owned, objectified and possessed by a man. It turns them on and fulfills them.
ww.CoolTools4Men.com

natalie clifford barney

Quote from: "bukowski"


Is the fact that men are in the type of jobs that do most damage to their bodies, sometimes to the point of and early death, not objectification of men's bodies?

I don't know... is it? Do you object to this? Do you speak against it? If it bothered me, I sure as hell would speak up and work to change it. No one should suffer such working conditions, we've an oblgation to have the best of safety standards and rules in all workplaces. In the US, we would hear this trashed as liberal nonsense.

And if it is, does this not show the sexism of the feminists when they care more about men looking at naked pictures of women, than they do about men being hurt and killed at work?

Feminists speak within a feminist context.. that does not mean that is the entire range of our interests, only our views on that issue. Most of us are pretty liberal and all for changing such things.
o im gonna grab my soul
And leave my ego at the door
I'm gonna open up my eyes
So, c'mon sing along if ya wanna
Cry if ya hafta
Lean back into your lover's arms
Grab the hand of the person
Standing right next to you
Show them we are not afraid of who we are

~ Melissa Ferrick

natalie clifford barney

Quote from: "Mr Benn"
Most heterosexual women WANT to be owned, objectified and possessed by a man. It turns them on and fulfills them.


Oh, really? Learn something new every day! Thank goddess I am not hetero <phew> Oops... forgot about how many guys think they can "straighten us dykes out."
o im gonna grab my soul
And leave my ego at the door
I'm gonna open up my eyes
So, c'mon sing along if ya wanna
Cry if ya hafta
Lean back into your lover's arms
Grab the hand of the person
Standing right next to you
Show them we are not afraid of who we are

~ Melissa Ferrick

bukowski

Quote
Bukowksi (me) wrote---"And if it is {objectification of men}, does this not show the sexism of the feminists when they care more about men looking at naked pictures of women, than they do about men being hurt and killed at work?"





Feminists speak within a feminist context.. that does not mean that is the entire range of our interests, only our views on that issue. Most of us are pretty liberal and all for changing such things.




So then the "feminist context" is sexist because it chooses to value the female context over the male context?

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