lkanneg,
Just another question. Again, it's honest. I have no ulteriior motive. I don't dislike feminists at all - I don't hate anyone, really, not even T's evil ex and not even George W. Bush -
I don't like Dubya either.
Do you really believe men and women are equal?
You stated as much (and I missed it - even though it was your first point. Hence this edit. Now do you see why I think I'm a dumbass?)
I do not. No way, no how, not in any stretch of the imagination.
I think we're defining "equal" differently. "Equal" is one of those words that have many meanings...there's the mathematical "equal," which is the sense I think you're using it in here, and of course, using that definition, men and women are not equal. Any two men, in that sense, that you pluck off the street, are not equal. The "equal" I am using is the "equal" used in the sense of the Declaration of Independence..."we hold these truths to be self-evident...that all men are created equal." Was the author saying that all men are identically smart, strong, brave, hardworking, attractive...? No, of course not. Was he saying that all men *should be treated equally by their society?* Yes. And that is the sense in which I believe men and women are equal.
And that's a good thing. We have different strengths and, ideally, these strengths should be used to complement one another, not to compete with one another and certainly never to tear one another apart.
The problem with this statement is that it assumes that there are a set of "women's strengths" and a set of "men's strengths" and that these strengths do not frequently cross the gender lines. I, for instance, have a great deal of what I believe is frequently regarded as "men's" strengths. I am of a mathematical and scientific frame of mind. I have a high mechanical aptitude. I am goal-oriented rather than process-oriented. I am ambitious. I am tall. I am strong and fast. I am physically courageous and quick-thinking in a crisis. So...where does this leave me, if the world is to be ordered that women should be the only ones doing the things that embody "women's strengths" and men should be the only ones doing the things that embody "men's strengths?" Where does this leave others? In a world where women can't be soldiers and engineers and men can't be primary caregivers and teachers of small children..? ooh, that *does* sound a bit like the world a lot of people think should exist, doesn't it...
Now, it would seem, some men are feeling that they are not valued. And why is this? I'll ask the men here to answer that one.
I hope they do--I'd like to see the answers to that question too.
I feel too much effort has gone into permitting and enabling women feel good (read: entitled) for nothing other than being female.
(sigh) I think I know what you're referring to, and I don't care much for it either.
My own modest contribution (and forgive me for being self-aggrandizing) is noticing everyone's feelings - and acting where I see a need. I'm not your equal, lkanneg. I couldn't hope to be. I'm not, say, Galt's equal either. But I'll bet, as far as being thoughtful, generous, considerate and kind, some here may not be MY equal. No, thoughtfulness is not the same as being able to rescue a 220 lb. man from a fire. Is it worthless, though?
Aggh, of *course* you're my equal!! We're not the SAME, no, but jeez, equal, absolutely...everybody on this board is my equal and I theirs (imo)...yes, I agree that people tend to take raw data...such as what such-and-so is good at or bad at...and then make
value judgements about it. Death to value judgements based upon intrinsic abilities and capabilities.