Thought this might be of interest

Started by lkanneg, Oct 17, 2005, 11:51 AM

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Gerard Velthuis

And don't make me look like the bad guy, because I am not the only one who feels like this. There have been more people who feel the same way and even have posted here at this forum with similar messages.
t is time men start behaving like men again and stand up for their rights, instead of behaving like conformist push-overs.

dr e

Gerard - Did YOU support Summers?  Did you write a letter to Harvard complaining about his treatment?  Are you one of those people that sits back and says "I still find that someone should of stuck up for Summers" but doesnt' do a thing themselves? If so, why not start taking action yourself?  What we need are the individual acts of men and women that when combined  produce a flood so great that it cannot be ignored.  If everyone sits back and complains about how OTHERS are not doing enough then we will get nowhere.
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

Gerard Velthuis

E, this way we keep on pin pointing at each other. Because he or she didn't do anything I don't have to do anything either. This way we are getting nowhere.

I find that the men's movement has failed when it comes down to Summers. I think you should admit that too E.
All the time we talk about how great the men's movement is, but when it is really needed, it is not there. We failed when it came down to Summers.
This was a great opportunity to finally do something but nothing happened.

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What we need are the individual acts of men and women that when combined produce a flood so great that it cannot be ignored.


Yes and where do you see this happening?? I don't see it happening anywhere.

Yes I think everybody knows what we need by now but some how it doesn't happen.

Here we are with a group of 500 men. So how come we don't combine our forces together and flood some injustice of men????
Most of the things I see is a forum in which we complain about many things but nothing is happening much, except for an e-mail here and there.
We need more than just that.
I am not to say what we are doing here is all for nothing, and I don't want to be the bad guy complaining about it, but IMO, and others who have complained about the same thing, we need to do better than this.
t is time men start behaving like men again and stand up for their rights, instead of behaving like conformist push-overs.

Sir Jessy of Anti

I wrote a letter to Summers Gerard.  I put my money where my mouth was.

All you seem to do is complain about "the men's movement" while doing nothing.
"The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master." -- Ayn Rand<br /><br />

Gerard Velthuis

So that is one letter. There are 700+ people here, I wonder how many people have send a letter or an e-mail. And even so, an e-mail / letter will not change anything.
I am sure Summers also got hundreds (if not thousands) of (hate) e-mails and (hate) letters from upset feminists all over the world. Not to mention the e-mails and letters adressed to Harvard itself. I think that made a much bigger impact than those couple of e-mails or letters that came from this forum.
We need hundreds or thousands of e-mails to make a statement. Better yet we need real life activism but it doesn't seem to happen.
t is time men start behaving like men again and stand up for their rights, instead of behaving like conformist push-overs.

dr e

Yew just don't get it Scott.

Gerard, You didn't write a letter, you just complained.  Get it?  You are a part of the problem.  If 700 people like you got off their butt and wrote a letter rather than sitting back and complaining about nothing happening then something would happen.  

From my perspective you are worse than the men who simply don't say anything out of fear.  You not only don't say anything, you complain about everyone else.  Start doing something yourself  and let us know about it.
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

devia

How the heck did I get dragged into this?

I suport equal treatment in family court, and have given numerous other examples of support (no special qoutas for another, big time I support a man's right to choose to be a parent or not).

I just have no support for the fanatics who do not believe in equality (whether they be male or female).

Besides that Gerald you mentioned that single women will still take the pill even if they guy she's screwing claims to be on it.

Well, my husband decided never to father children early on in life. Until we got tested for STD's together, and it was confirmed that my tubes were tied he used condoms. This to me is common sense.

IMHO the ONLY draw back to men not having to use condoms for birth control without taking the womens word on it would be the possible higher spread of STD's. That inself however is no reason why men should not have the choice.

Gerard Velthuis

E, did u write a letter?
Even if u did, I am sure you know just as well as me that a couple of letters will not mean much. Especially compared to all the hate mail Summers and Harvard must have gotten from all over the world.

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If 700 people like you got off their butt and wrote a letter rather than sitting back and complaining about nothing happening then something would happen.


Yes exactly that is what we need. However it doesn't seem to happen. Have you ever tried to motivate the people here to do more? Or do more together?

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From my perspective you are worse than the men who simply don't say anything out of fear.


The other men don't say anything out of fear, the other men don't say anything because that is the problem with most men. They don't give too much about such things. I already said it, there are also people here just for the chit-chat instead of actual activism.
I am no worse. You know why? Because at least I dare to say that things are not going great at the moment and we could do much better. At least I dare to aknoledge this. At least I dare to aknowledge that the men's movement failed when it comes down to Summers. I don't sit around here and complain about I don't know how many articles and pretend that as long as we complain there is a so-called men's movement. At least I understand much more needs to be done then sitting comfortably behind your desk chit-chatting or complaining about articles.

Further, I do as much as you people do. I don't always sit here to talk about articles. I do similar things you guys do, but I do it in my own country. Yes doing similar things you guys are doing. No I am not saying what I am doing is the best the men's movement can do. I wish more can be done but alone it is impossible and as I said before I don't believe the conditions are ready yet. But don't say I don't do anything because I do as much as most people do here. Most of the times I go to regular websites from numerous sources, such as newspapers, or I go to websites of the government, or to websites of some dumb company dishing men with I don't know what action. I find that more effective than merely posting messages here, in a crowd that thinks a like and is distanced from the rest of the world. I am not saying that everybody here does this, but I think there are some gusy here that do that and nothing more. It is nice to talk about similar interests etc. I agree on that. But just posting here will not do it for me, and I don't think this is the best way to promote men's issues / rights.
t is time men start behaving like men again and stand up for their rights, instead of behaving like conformist push-overs.

dr e

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At least I understand much more needs to be done then sitting comfortably behind your desk chit-chatting or complaining about articles.


Okay, so get crackin.  Make sure to tell us about all of your efforts.
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

Gerard Velthuis

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Okay, so get crackin. Make sure to tell us about all of your efforts.


I alone can not make a huge difference. We need many people. Since the men's movement is kinda small at the moment since it is rather recent, I suggest we stick with the people that we have and make cohesive group efforts.
I said it before, you can either shoot at many targets with all your gun powder and your effort will vanish (eventually) or you can combine all your gun powder (i.e. creating a cohesive group) and shoot one big target never to return again.
t is time men start behaving like men again and stand up for their rights, instead of behaving like conformist push-overs.

neonsamurai

Indeed, but Gerard you are behaving in exactly the way that you say the rest of us shouldn't. It's a case of do as I say, don't do as I do. That's what some of the folks here are getting annoyed about.

I'm certainly no equality warrior. I've not invaded Buckingham Palace or taken part in a rally or tried to form a shelter for men. I do my bit and it's not much in the grand scheme of things, I know that. But are you saying that because my efforts aren't having any real effect I should stop? That unless what we're doing is going to work we shouldn't bother?
Dr. Kathleen Dixon, the Director of Women's Studies: "We forbid any course that says we restrict free speech!"

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