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[SIAM]

T lived in Southeast Asia for many, many years - although he was married at the time, his observation was the women are basically the same all over the world. Some good ones, some bad ones.

If it were not for his children whom he hopes to see one day, and the small issue of not having any money, he would go back to live there in a heartbeat. He doesn't much like the way the US is going either - for myriad reasons.

This exactly mirrors my point CM.  I'm not having a go at women of the west here - it's simply the environment.  As has been said many-a-time on these boards, life is short and we have but one shot at it.

[devia]

For the same reasons you'd be interested in buying a girl IMHO. I don't see anything wrong with it, a rose by any other name is still a rose?

In your version of reality a 1st world guy goes to a 2nd world country and meets his true love. Are there a shortage of men in 2nd world countries to make this possible?


Again I have no problem with anyone buying a 2nd or 3rd world... person of the opposite sex, I just like to call a spade a spade.
It's called being objective.

[SIAM]

For the same reasons you'd be interested in buying a girl IMHO. I don't see anything wrong with it, a rose by any other name is still a rose?

Honestly, what the FUCK?  I already made clear I just want a normal life without the fear of divorce and seeing my kids once every two weeks in Burger King.  I don't want to "buy a wife" but I want somebody who wants kids and wants to stick around with me so I can see my kids grow up.  Yes, that sounds so sordid to you, I guess - I'm a real sicko.  

Again, what's interesting is you've made a really base assumption, and then okayed it saying it's fine and something you'd do yourself.   That says more about how you think than reality.

[contrarymary]

life is short and we have but one shot at it.

Yes, and IMHO, IMHO - I wish you all the best this life has to offer. Go for it.

[powder-monkey]

So, Devia...

Can we assume that anyone with a well-paying job and a SAHM has bought himself a woman?  Would this also apply to any marriage where there's a significant discrepancy in incomes?
...if not,why not?

[devia]

IMHO,


I'm not questioning your motives, no doubt you're believing in a utopia, but let me ask you a question. Why would a women in say for example.. post Soviet Russia choose to sign up for a western matchmaking service instead of marrying the boy next door?

There are many countries which have very set cultural roles for men and women which are not 2nd world. Italy would be one example, Spain regardless of that silly housekeeping law by their short term government which was only voted in because it was anti-Bush would be another 1st world country where regarding day to day living men and woman are very traditional.  

Portugal is an interesting country, it's the poorest country in the EU but it does not have a noticable sex trade, nor do it's women offer themseves up to westerners. When I was there I saw many very attractive girls begging on the street holding rosaries.  Perhaps this is a front for prositution but I highly doubt it considering how religous their people are.  


Powder-monkey, It is fairly rare in Western culture for people to marry outside of their social-economic class. When it does happen then yes it is a form of prositution. However in the west these woman have the choice to make their own careers and livelyhood while in 2nd world countries your only choice is more then often only who you marry. Impoverished men and unattractive women have even less or no choices. A couple from the same social economic background (both with degrees for instance) who have decided that one partner will stay home while the children are growing is of course not included in this.

<<<<just interesting you'd be interested in "buying a boy". >>>>

Simply put if my husband died he could not/would not be replaced, at the risk of sounding corny he is my one great love. "What would happen if one of us died" is a rather morbid tease/game that we play with each other, (he btw will be off to Poland if I go first). As much as it's a tease we have insured each other "to the tits". It may sound strange to you but we both have a huge fatalist (not to mention morbid) streak, enjoy discussing worst case senerio's, and have both had enough crappy things happen to us that we can't help but lean towards what could be around the next corner, worst case senerio. Hence I would buy myself a boy, insuring my sex life, having companionship but with the understanding that mutual love would be out of the question. I've never said I wasn't weird.

The problem I have with the things I have seen written by men looking in 2nd and 3rd world countries is that they excuse their appeal to their future bought mates. I've heard "Western men treat them better". "Their own men are lazy bastards", etc. Again I ask what's wrong with the boy they grew up besides?


We got to know a few local guys travelling through Poland and the Baltics and my impression of the vast majority of the younger male generation was that they were neither sluggish nor boorish, yet their most beautiful women (gene pool) is being sold to the highest bidder. That in a nutshell is my problem with the whole senerio

[SIAM]

devia, as I've already said, you have a very very cynical mind for one who (paradoxically) believes in marrying for love:-

It is fairly rare in Western culture for people to marry outside of their social-economic class. When it does happen then yes it is a form of prositution.

So when two people who have different salary levels marry, the richer one is simply "buying" the other one. Oooooookay.........so the secret to eternal bliss is to marry somebody who earns a very similar salary to me, I guess.  That way, by default, she hasn't "bought" me and I haven't "bought" her and everything is non-cynical and okay in devia's mind.  Money is an all-defining thing for you - hmmmm........but you say you marry for love amongst other things.....I guess it's only devia who can marry for wholesome reasons.  Every single other woman marries for money, according to devia - gee, you're sounding like a really cynical MRA now.

Also, do you not find it odd you're a western woman but seem to know the minds of all women and men of all other cultures that you've just had a cursory look at on your travels. Wow, you should become a travel writer.  I guess I must bow to your omniscience - hey I have my own experiences of travel, but I must discount all my experiences, and those of others, because you say it's just impossible to marry somebody of lower socio-economic status without "buying" them.  

The problem I have with the things I have seen written by men looking in 2nd and 3rd world countries is that they excuse their appeal to their future bought mates. I've heard "Western men treat them better". "Their own men are lazy bastards", etc. Again I ask what's wrong with the boy they grew up besides?

Yes, you do have a problem with western men have the temerity to look abroad.  Why do you have this problem?

I don't think you listened to a word I said way up this thread - namely that I'd rather live in a different environment to that of the west.  There is no guarantee what happens after that, is there?  I've already travelled a lot and have some expectations though. You're trying to re-write my own experiences and tell me all I've seen is completely wrong because of your own experiences.  

Hey, this might sound a little bit odd, but maybe we've just had different experiences and that's lead to our different opinions?

[devia]

IMHO.

I asked you a question that you haven't answered:

I'll repeat it: "Why would a women in say for example.. post Soviet Russia choose to sign up for a western matchmaking service instead of marrying the boy next door?"
I asked it twice, instead of answering you've acussed me of being of being cynical. I already said that I am a cynic.. so I guess we can move on to you answering a simple question instead of trying to bait me?

Again, I do not have a problem with a western man looking abroad, I do however believe they are sometimes deluding themselves regarding why 2nd world women find them attractive. Those that do not, that are realistic, I have no problem with except that they should understand that they are depleating the gene pool of the countries they take the most attractive from. Not the worst crime in the world considering it up's "our" gene pool.

<<<Hey, this might sound a little bit odd, but maybe we've just had different experiences and that's lead to our different opinions?>>>

No doubt, and no harm done.


P.S

We own property in Poland, and in -8 years are working on living south of Prague. Besides it's faults I rather love Eastern Europe.

[SIAM]

"Why would a women in say for example.. post Soviet Russia choose to sign up for a western matchmaking service instead of marrying the boy next door?"

Well the obvious answer is: I don't know. Maybe one will reply they want to marry a guy for money, maybe another wants to get out of Russia, maybe another simply finds western guys more "attractive" in terms of general disposition.  Maybe another says its all of those reasons.  Maybe another just, you know, fell in love with a guy. Who knows? I can guess your cynical answer, and I guess that there are a number of Russian women just looking to marry a guy for money.  Just as there are American women marrying men for money and willing to travel to the big cities in America to find them (e.g. pretty woman from Kansas takes a job in rich part of LA as waitress just to snag a rich guy).  You've described a part of human nature that is not unique to countries outside of the west.  And here's the key point: Not all women are like that.  The guy with the smarts can work out who is who.  The less smart guys take the bigger risks and rush into marriage.

I see you've dropped your black/white thinking now and are a bit more reasonable with your view in saying that some guys don't have a clue.  True, but it's the case everywhere you look.  Smart guys don't rush into anything whatever country you're in.

[no2fembots]

... I'd rather live in a different environment to that of the west.  There is no guarantee what happens after that, is there?

My sentiments exactly!  I am nearing saturation point regarding the pervasive hatred of all things masculine in our 1st world.

I am not seeking a wife or family.  I am not into buying young girls for sex.  I simply wish to spend the rest of my days in a land where men are respected by most women, and actually liked by those same women!  

I really don't think most women can truly understand what it feels like to swim in this sea of misandrist hatred each and every day!  Does it not make total sense to want to live in an environment - far from perfect to be sure - where a man need not have to apologize for being what he is? Too live in a land where men are more valued?  WOW!  Things are so bad in Canada for men that even getting a little respect in a foregin land would make that land seem Utopian.

There are no Utopia's to move to, but the West has turned into a Dystopia during the course of my lifetime and I want out.

[powder-monkey]

Qote:
I'll repeat it: "Why would a women in say for example.. post Soviet Russia choose to sign up for a western matchmaking service instead of marrying the boy
next door?"

Devia, are you actually reading the posts on this thread or are you being provided a summary with excerpts?  Perhaps IMHO has concluded that your inability to grasp the subject at hand is willful.

[Galt]

I think a lot of women (and people) in general from the old Soviet Union and the East Block think that all the action is in the United States.  That's what the media and Western films tell them.  

I don't know if that's the case.  If you live for 10 years in Indianapolis or Cleveland or Podunk, Nebraska, it's not all like a Bruce Willis film.  At least not 24-hours a day, LOL.  You live somewhere, and buy your groceries, and get mad about taxes and put your feet up after you're done working.  Pretty much like anywhere.

But from that point of view, it's just like a girl from Grand Ledge, Michigan, wanting to see the Big Time in New York City.

Note to Devia: There's a huge difference between being a tourist somewhere and living in a place.  You get the drift if you live somewhere, you don't get much of a drift if your husband buys you a trip and you spend a few nights in the ex-pat bar.

[Galt]

I think some of the Soviet gals are undoubtedly golddiggers (just like you'll find anywhere else - they want to get a free lunch on the back of a man), some are naive (or even stupid), many are mesmerized by Western films and TV shows, some just want some adventure etc.  Pretty much like Sally Lou Millhoun from Dafos, Missouri, who wants to see something other than the boys hanging around the gas station on Saturday night.

[Roy]

Every once in a while, (oh, maybe twice a week), a thread will inspire me to re-post a quote or two from Arthur Schopenhauer's essay "On Women."

Because, when all the P.C. censored talk trying to dismiss real gender warfare grows weary, it's comforting to read a quote or two from a true radical. (And he's long dead, so he can't be sued or crucified by N.O.W.)

In the full essay (link below), A.S. does admit of exceptions to the general rule.

For this lapse in judgement, I have become more critical of him over the years; though I appreciate his charitable weaknesses....

ON WOMEN  (minimal excerpts)  --

It is because women's reasoning powers are weaker that they show more sympathy for the unfortunate than men, and consequently take a kindlier interest in them.

On the other hand, women are inferior to men in matters of justice, honesty, and conscientiousness. Again, because their reasoning faculty is weak, things clearly visible and real, and belonging to the present, exercise a power over them which is rarely counteracted by abstract thoughts, fixed maxims, or firm resolutions, in general, by regard for the past and future or by consideration for what is absent and remote.

Accordingly they have the first and principal qualities of virtue, but they lack the secondary qualities which are often a necessary instrument in developing it. Women may be compared in this respect to an organism that has a liver but no gall-bladder.

So that it will be found that the fundamental fault in the character of women is that they have no "sense of justice." This arises from their deficiency in the power of reasoning already referred to, and reflection, but is also partly due to the fact that Nature has not destined them, as the weaker sex, to be dependent on strength but on cunning; this is why they are instinctively crafty, and have an ineradicable tendency to lie.

For as lions are furnished with claws and teeth, elephants with tusks, boars with fangs, bulls with horns, and the cuttlefish with its dark, inky fluid, so Nature has provided woman for her protection and defence with the faculty of dissimulation, and all the power which Nature has given to man in the form of bodily strength and reason has been conferred on woman in this form.

Hence, dissimulation is innate in woman and almost as characteristic of the very stupid as of the clever. Accordingly, it is as natural for women to dissemble at every opportunity as it is for those animals to turn to their weapons when they are attacked; and they feel in doing so that in a certain measure they are only making use of their rights.

Therefore a woman who is perfectly truthful and does not dissemble is perhaps an impossibility. This is why they see through dissimulation in others so easily; therefore it is not advisable to attempt it with them.

From the fundamental defect that has been stated, and all that it involves, spring falseness, faithlessness, treachery, ungratefulness, and so on. In a court of justice women are more often found guilty of perjury than men. It is indeed to be generally questioned whether they should be allowed to take an oath at all.

http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/s/schopenhauer/arthur/essays/chapter7.html

[zarby]

Wow. Talk about politically incorrect.

The really sad thing is that the women's movement started out I think possibly sincerely as an equality movement.

If it had stayed that, it would have been a good thing. I think it is a good thing that women be allowed to be whatever they want to be (so long as they qualify and perform on equal terms).

Feminism has turned into a preference, hate, etc. movement. I think quotes like this are almost acceptable if for no other than reason the simple principle of "what is good for the goose is good for the gandor."

I am so sck of the hate, false generalizations, etc feminist throw at men that I almost think it is fair, just and right to throw some back at them.

It may be that two wrongs do not make a right. However, I think perhaps 100 million wrongs might make a right.