Absent fathers root of gun crimes, faith leaders say

Started by whome112, Jan 13, 2006, 01:23 AM

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whome112

If you think the right cares any more about men ....  whome

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar
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Absent fathers root of gun crimes, faith leaders say

Young male adolescents who have no male role model at home 'look to gangs for family'

Jan. 11, 2006. 04:13 PM
CURTIS RUSH
STAFF REPORTER THESTAR.COM

Young, angry adolescents who have no male role model at home are committing many of the gun crimes in Toronto because gangs are their family, faith leaders said today.

And fathers who desert the home are the root of the problem, the leaders said at a news conference held at the Driftwood Community Centre in the gang-plagued Jane-Finch corridor.

Rob Brodie, who works on trying to rehabilitate criminals following their sentences, said that of 20 case files he recently pulled at random, 14 of the criminals were from single-mother homes.

Along with a call for politicians to toughen drug laws, the faith leaders pointed to a breakdown in the family home as the leading edge of the downward spiral.

Building on the momentum of Boston preacher Eugene Rivers, who's been in Toronto to introduce his own strategies for crime fighting, the faith leaders sent out a call for everyone - politicians, police, faith leaders, mothers, fathers and educators - to do their part.

Bruce Smith, a former Toronto Argonaut football player who is now an outreach worker and chaplain, speaks from experience.

"I grew up without a father," Smith said. "I ran with gangs and packed a gun when I grew up in Texas."

When he was 18, he became "fascinated" with guns and drugs as "a way to have money to buy nice things. I was the person who sold drugs. Young people equate drugs with power and an easy way to make money."

At the University of Colorado, he and some friends mimicked the characters in the movie The Wild Bunch by wearing long overcoats and packing weapons as they terrorized people on the street.

Later, he said, "I became remorseful" for his way of life and knew that "if I didn't change, I'd end up dead."

That's the message he's trying to communicate to young people he talks to.

Football gave him a sense of family, something that many kids don't get at home, the faith leader said.

Dr. Charles McVety, of the Evangelical Association and Canada Christian College, echoed the call for lawmakers to roll back the clock to a time when parental punishment could be used as discipline.

"I'm not talking about abuse," McVety said. "But there has been an erosion of parental rights and a social drift that's been coming for years."

Children who know the law, he said, are practising a form of civil disobedience in the home and getting away with it.

Single mothers, who are working two and three part-time jobs, are either not at home or frequently can't control their sons.

One mother who turned her son in this month when she found an AK-47 rifle in his bed should be saluted, the faith leaders agreed.

Others must find the strength to come forward and the police have to help create the environment where mothers can feel confident in coming to them, the leaders said.

Smith, the former Argo, said he is "very optimistic" that the tide will eventually turn, and he said he is encouraged by what Boston's Eugene Rivers started.

"We got the dialogue going and that's great," he said.

With the federal election coming on Jan. 23, the leaders said they hoped the new government would keep drug possession illegal.

"Stop the soft talk on drugs," McVety urged. "Young people are joining gangs for the lure of drug money. It is dangerous talk."

Prime Minister Paul Martin wants to reduce penalties for simple possession.

But that's going down the wrong road, McVety said, and the party leaders should make their intentions known before people go to the polls.

McVety said "it's sending the wrong message" to spend millions on curbing tobacco use, but mapping out a strategy to make drugs more permissible.

Smith, the former Argo, echoed that sentiment, saying that legalizing drugs like marijuana will instil the idea in people that drugs are not a problem.

"That girl who was killed on Boxing Day . . . drugs were the thing that motivated those shooters. It's time for us as leaders to take an active stand against things that are causing death in our city.

"We need to stand up in the community and say no to drugs."
ay what you mean: Mean what you say.
http://jwwells.blogspot.com

Rob

One of the things I would most like to say is: "Smith, the former Argo..." who gives a crap who you are!

What kind of an insane society are we living in that because some putz could throw a pig skin for 40 yards that he now magically has the right to impose moral values on society?

Jeez! Brett Hull was the "Top Gun" in Hockey. I don't see how that qualifies him to be any better of a parent than the junkie who lives down the street from me.

We've got movie stars getting on tv commercials to tell us how to behave morally - while they're going through their 4th divorce. Yeah, thanks, but no thanks. You may be pretty, but shut up please!

One must question what the hell is going with this phenomenon, n'est pas?

What kind of insanity have we created in our society?

Sorry, I know that's not what this thread was intended to talk about but..., I would rather get my moral values from a husband and wife who raised 4 successful children on their dairy farm.

Quentin0352

I'm still trying to figure out how the atricle applies to this comment.

Quote
If you think the right cares any more about men .... whome


Care to elaborate a bit better for us since you lost me on that one. Beyond that, the guy seems to have some good points and ideas.

Quote
Dr. Charles McVety, of the Evangelical Association and Canada Christian College, echoed the call for lawmakers to roll back the clock to a time when parental punishment could be used as discipline.

"I'm not talking about abuse," McVety said. "But there has been an erosion of parental rights and a social drift that's been coming for years."


Seems they want to allow people to the ability to raise their kids again more than anything.

whome112

Quote from: "Quentin0352"
I'm still trying to figure out how the atricle applies to this comment.

Quote
If you think the right cares any more about men .... whome


Care to elaborate a bit better for us since you lost me on that one. Beyond that, the guy seems to have some good points and ideas.


They put all of the blame on men. It takes men and women to create the mess we have in Canada's big cities.  Dumping the fault onto men will only make the problems worse.

It took ALL adults to get us where we are. It will take ALL adults to create change. Blaming and shaming men will ensure, require and demand that no action is possible.

whome
ay what you mean: Mean what you say.
http://jwwells.blogspot.com

The Biscuit Queen

Dr Dobson IS a married father of several well adjusted kids, and I listen to what he has to say. The religious right is not perfect, not at all, but they DO care about the family.

Here is the rub, and the reasons many MRAs AND faminists dislike him. He supports traditional family values, and traditional roles. He is not set against SAHDs, but he does feel someone should be there for the kids. He does feel the family is the man's responsibility, that in the bible the man is the leader and moral compass of the family. he feels the wife should be a very important supportive role next to the husband, not competing directly against or taking charge.

Quite frankly, when my marriage was crumbling, he was one of the few people I took advice from that worked. I am no wall flower, and I do not lie down and take abuse. But he teaches respect, and that is a very important aspect to a marriage.

The absence of fathers IS to blame for thse occurances. Of course the article conveniently left out goverment incentives to single motherhood for the poor, and feminist influences that mothers do not need men in their lives. But lets concentrate on the fact that the more of these articles that are out there, the more value society may put on fatherhood. We may be able to use this trend to our favor.
he Biscuit Queen
www.thebiscuitqueen.blogspot.com

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.

Quentin0352

OK, I see what you are saying then. Beyond one line, it seemed to be pretty balanced beyond it though mentioning how women abandon their husbands for affairs and etc would have been good too. Maybe someone can find out how to contact him and ask he look in to that part of the problem too.

Quote
And fathers who desert the home are the root of the problem, the leaders said at a news conference held at the Driftwood Community Centre in the gang-plagued Jane-Finch corridor.


So there is the problem line but beyond that he says parents and complains about the government getting too involved so I would think he could be asked to correct that in future speeches since he seemed pretty reasonable after that on his beliefs. It could be that he just doesn't know or think of the side we see since that is frequently hidden from people while the side he does talk about is the one pushed by the government, advertising and feminists.

westcoast2

TBQ wrote....
Quote
The absence of fathers IS to blame for thse occurances. Of course the article conveniently left out goverment incentives to single motherhood for the poor, and feminist influences that mothers do not need men in their lives.


Which makes sense.

Though the article says....

Quote
fathers who desert the home are the root of the problem, the leaders said


Which really *is* the problem.

No, not fathers deserting the home.  (Note women initiate divorce more than men therefore depraving children of fathers.)   The problem is the 'leaders' thinking and believing men are the root of the problem.

How can this belief be changed, because it surely needs to be.
The mem'ries of a man in his old age
Are the deeds  of a man in his prime"

Pink Floyd - Free Four

Buddy-Rey

Guys, this is just my opinion, but I found the article very PRO-male, because it enforces the idea that fathers are important.  I don't think the aim was to demonize men, but to emphasize the crucial role that fathers play.  Furthermore, they're absolutely right.  Kids who are abandoned by their fathers are several times more likely to become alcoholics, substance abusers, criminals, or absentee fathers themselves.  This isn't a sexism issue, this is a national crisis.

hurkle

Hey, the article would have been pro-male, had they not spun it by including the line that blamed men for the problem. It didn't say fatherlessness, it said father's deserting. That's a huge difference in connotation.

I wrote a letter to the editor saying this same thing.

The problem here is that, as Gonzo pointed out in a recent post, most people read only the first two or three paragraphs of an article while skimming. And what does this article point out in the second paragraph? That fathers, men, are the root of the problem - they are deserting their families.

That was the anti-male spin that was placed onto an article that should have been extremely balanced.

Pfaugh.
: How many feminists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

A: THAT'S NOT FUNNY!

Buddy-Rey

You're right.  Sorry I didn't notice that before.  And in all fairness, they could have mentioned how much it can screw up kids to have their MOTHERS walk out on them (which I've lived through first AND second-hand), but that wouldn't have been very PC.

whome112

Quote from: "Buddy-Rey"
You're right.  Sorry I didn't notice that before.  And in all fairness, they could have mentioned how much it can screw up kids to have their MOTHERS walk out on them (which I've lived through first AND second-hand), but that wouldn't have been very PC.


Absolutely: It is VERY unPC to say that mothers walk out on their kids. None-the-less, Canada is now running over a quarter of our single parents being MEN. Men raising kids alone without a woman around. Ah! yes. Can't say that ... I know. Yet, most of those guys have the kids cause mama ran away. No court gave them the kids.

It bugs me big time when a problem created by all adults is dumped into the laps of us men. That is not right and more importantly that will only make the problem worse. Part of the reason Canada is having a massive murder rate is those inner city boys have no hope and already know that they will face sexism and racism and ... There is no hope, but there is the gang. There's money in the gang: There's support in the gang.  The gang is family.

Well, we ain't going to fix this by crapping on the guys cause it took every adult Canadian in the last thirty years to make the bloody mess in the first place! Put the blame where it belongs. Put the blame on all of the selfish people who want their BMW's before they worry about kids, inner city or not. Cause you can bet your ass that that is where the blame really goes.

whome
ay what you mean: Mean what you say.
http://jwwells.blogspot.com

Pernicious

Quote
And fathers who desert the home are the root of the problem, the leaders said at a news conference held at the Driftwood Community Centre in the gang-plagued Jane-Finch corridor.


I really enjoy this line. How the fathers are the ones who desert the home. Just another jab at men. How can you take an article seriously when it is statistically proven that women are the ones who primarily file for divorce.

Quote
Single mothers, who are working two and three part-time jobs, are either not at home or frequently can't control their sons.


Where is the father, oh yeah he is denied visitation. But his Child Support must be enforced with an iron fist.
 do what I need to do to protect my loved ones, friends, and family. This is what men do.

GregA

I have an assignment...

Go read the single mothers by choice forums...

Given the prevailing attitudes there towards men, it would seem its fair to ask, are them men abandoning the women, or are the women driving them away?

Quentin0352

Have some links to those forums?

Sir Percy

Quote
What kind of an insane society are we living in that because some putz could throw a pig skin for 40 yards that he now magically has the right to impose moral values on society?


Rob is getting a little het up in this. I would agree that playing football doesn't necessarily equip a person to make moral judgements but hardly any job specifically does that. Would a surgeon be more equiped simply due to skill with a scalpel? As for imposing them, he was at a public forum and making his points as others were, not 'imposing' them on anyone. He was encouraging more attention to them.

The moral values issue is important though. Having NO moral values or poor ones is the PC norm that is increasingly imposed. Really imposed, with sanctions against people who think otherwise. Think of teaching homosexuality to  8 year olds and arresting a father who asks for it to stop. Frankly if a person has no moral values he/she is in no position to criticise those that do. Further, if your reasonable moral values do not make themselves felt in society, then someone elses will and they may not be so reasonable. What is sure is that a civil society in a morals vacuum will not last. Odd, isn't it, that it is usually those with few or no moral values that make the most complaint, much more so than the more silent majority.
vil, like misery, is Protean, and never greater than when committed in the name of 'right'. To commit evil when they are convinced they are doing 'good', is one of the greatest of pleasures known to a feminist.

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