Anyone read "Self-made Man"

Started by brian44, Feb 02, 2006, 07:28 AM

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typhonblue

Quote from: "brian44"
Typhonblue, you restore my faith in womanhood. Can't believe there's a woman out there that cares that much about our situation.


*sigh* Thanks.

I think it might be misplaced, but thank you all the same.

The Biscuit Queen

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Ultimately men don't need more of WOMAN, they need eachother. Even pro-MRA women get stuck on that one.


Not necessarily. Many of us feel that men can be there for each other without the requirement, which you seem to promote, that they be gay to do so.

Beene sent a photo which showed two men in army gear, each with a hand on the back of the other's neck, their foreheads together. That to me is a wonderful example of men being able to be intimate, and it most likely was two heterosexual men.

I see that most men are not nor ever will be comfortable being gay, but we can encourage men to be more intimate. I see your fascination with gay men to be counterproductive in the movement, in that many men, out of self preservation, will stay away from intimacy because it is so often related to homosexuality.

Boundaries often serve purposes other then nefarious ones. Making it clear one is not gay keeps men from being hit on by other men. It can be very uncomfortable, for both men, when that happens. Pretending it is all the fault of a phobic society is not addressing that problem. I see value in much of what you discuss, but I feel you promote homosexuality over heterosexuality.

Quite frankly, I have little agenda on this as I am happily married. As long as MY husband is faithful to me, I really would not care if the entire men's movement was made up of gays. Since it is not, however, I care about helping who does make up the men's movement, which is by and large straight men.
he Biscuit Queen
www.thebiscuitqueen.blogspot.com

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.

typhonblue

Quote from: "The Biscuit Queen"
Quote
Ultimately men don't need more of WOMAN, they need eachother. Even pro-MRA women get stuck on that one.


Not necessarily. Many of us feel that men can be there for each other without the requirement, which you seem to promote, that they be gay to do so.  


Wow, you've completely misconstrued what I'm saying. Is it deliberate? It certainly is systemic among you, Devia and Hachu. (As well as a few other women on the former ifeminist boards.)

I'm saying that homophobia has destroyed men's PLATONIC, NON-SEXUAL attachments to eachother. If anything it's destigmatized exploitive sexual behavior between men and stigmatized intimate affection. Even a hundred years ago when sodomy was illegal, men still enjoyed intimate friendships with eachother. If anything creating a gay identity and legalizing sodomy has been *worse* for men's relationships with eachother rather then better. (Since the shadow side of the identity "gay" is homophobia. Without gay there is no homophobia.)

If all the men in the men's movement became gay tommorrow it wouldn't help a thing.** Even GAY men have a problem with intimate, non-sexual affection with other men. They often become sexually exploitive towards other men without being supportive or non-sexually intimate.

Now, I have a question for you. You say you have no agenda, yet you consistantly bring up this point and distort what I'm trying to say. Is there a reason why you feel like you have to A. speak for all men, B. constantly divert a discussion of NON-SEXUAL intimacy into a discussion of GAY men, C. subtly stigmatize NON-SEXUAL intimacy between men by doing so?

**Although it *would* help if tommorrow, every man suddenly stopped being afraid of being seen as gay. Not BECOMING gay, but no longer afraid of being SEEN as gay.

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