"Gender Norming" in traditionally male occupations

Started by BRIAN, Feb 20, 2006, 09:26 PM

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BRIAN

This will be my first topic that I have started on this board so be gentle I am a Virgin.

Something that is near and dear to my heart since I spent 10 years in the U.S. Army is millitrary preparedness and standards. When the U.S. Millitary was first integrated combining both male and female personell(Previously there had been organizations like the WACS) the physical training standards were the same for male and female. A female soldier had to do the same ammount of push ups and situps as a male soldier and run the same time in the two mile run. Few women could make the cut and thus their were few female soldiers. Then in the 1970's Title IX came along and the service academies(Westpoint, Anapolis, The Airforce and Coast Guard academies) had to go Co-Ed. The first few female cadets to make the program washed out quickly because they could not meet the physical requirments. Congress quickly jumped in and ordered a "Gender Norming" policy. The military was ordered to come up with a seperate but equal standard for women. There was a study that came up with the fact that the average male had about 40% mor upperbody strength and about 80%  more cardio-respiratory capacity and endurance.  So they set the minimum scores on the physical training tests at corresponding levels. For example the 18-24 year old male soldier had to complete 42 correct push-ups and 63 sit-ups in 2 minutes and complete a timed 2 mile run in 14 min 58 seconds. The female soldier in the same age bracket had to do 12 push-ups and 43 sit-ups in 2 minutes and run the 2 miles in 19:58. Worked fine for keeping the females in the service but it didn't translate well to the real world where METL (Mission Essential Task List) Tasks could not be "Gender Normed". 40 pound crates of ammo, 95 pound howitzer and tank main gun rounds and the M60 machinegun all weighed the same for men or women reguardless of what the PT Test regulations said. Also certain common soldier skills presented a problem. A soldier was expected to carry or drag a wounded budy 1000 meters to the rear to an aid station. Most females couldn't do those things but 99% of the males could. With even more jobs opened up to females in the mid 1990s this became more of a problem with units closer to the forward edge of the battle field becoming even more integrated. Slots once filled by male soldiers were now being filled by less physically capable females who could not do the jobs at the same level. This hurt unit rediness, capablity and morale. I saw some of this first hand at the end of my Army career. I have horror stories about it and I am sure that there are some of you out there in some professions (Police, Fire Rescue, Park Service and Construction) that have similar expiriences. So post them up here and lets discuss them.
You may sleep soundly at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those who seek to harm you.

BRIAN

You may sleep soundly at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those who seek to harm you.

BRIAN

You may sleep soundly at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those who seek to harm you.

CaptDMO

Quote
For example the 18-24 year old male soldier had to complete 42 correct push-ups and 63 sit-ups in 2 minutes and complete a timed 2 mile run in 14 min 58 seconds. The female soldier in the same age bracket had to do 12 push-ups and 43 sit-ups in 2 minutes and run the 2 miles in 19:58.

I could do that, .....30  years ago. Now it would involve wearing breakfast to try.

On The Other Hand,
After the cops are cleaning up the crime scene tape and latex gloves, the firemen are rolling up the hoses, the EMTs are LONG gone with their new customers, the wrecker drivers are sweeping up the last of the sorbant and glass,  I can manage to give 'em a nod from the distance to let them know there's no charge when they get home and their driveway has been plowed or their garden tilled.

I can single handedly cover the neighbors drive with crushed stone, erect scaffolding the size of a house. Move a foot of snow from a road, till over the soil for 8"in large gardens and fields, and cut down whatever grows. Of course, I cheat. I'm a firm believer in the wonder of modern hydraulics and heavy material moving machinery. I have a forklift that will put a car on top of a house.  

The big differance is, I usually have plenty of time to figure out what's ahead, wait 'til I have everything I need to start, can stop for a break when I want, and um,...no one is shooting at me, and nothing is likely to blow up next to me without warning.  (maybe a compressed gas tank if I don't pay appropriate attention) The chances of what I'm standing on collapsing are nil and I have no worries about contracting a fatal disease, or a lawsuit,  from the subject matter at hand. I don't expect to have to sort out anyones body parts unless I get too close to the brush mower.

I generally don't have to consider my immediate job future and income on the breeze of political whimsy and I don't have to keep in top physical condition just to survive my average workday. (I think my new gut will attest to that)

It wasn't always this way.
I was a rigger, flyman, fabricator and operator for the theater. Lowering, swinging, lifting, rolling, smoking, fogging, tons of scenery and people, over the heads  of people not hip to the situation, AS IF BY MAGIC! Don't do this at home folks, it involves an astounding amount of astoundingly expensive stuff, and an astounding amount of preperation and practice (we wore the band aids so no one else had to) that no one else ever sees.  You bet we spent a lot of time inspecting, maintaining, and cleaning. I know the attitude that there is NO "good enough", or "pretty close" when failure to play for the team guarantees someone else gets hurt. Maybe really bad.

Of course sometimes things go south.
When a really big heavy and recalcitrant item is threatening someone, the tried and true method for expediant response is get as much meat on it as possible and HEAVE. There's plenty of time for job description discussion AFTER the sirens are fading into the distance.

BRIAN

So Devia can read it TTT
You may sleep soundly at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those who seek to harm you.

Captain Courageous

#5
Sep 22, 2009, 06:02 PM Last Edit: Sep 22, 2009, 06:04 PM by Captain Courageous
I read a post on another forum. It said the same thing about morale. It was written by
a lance corporal in the British Army (who wanted to stay anonymous, for fear of reprisal).
These women know they can't cut it. That's not the agenda. The true agenda is to get in there and stay in there long enough to advance in promotion and be in charge of the males!

Men's Rights Activist

Life, Liberty, & Pursuit of Happiness are fundamental rights for all (including males), & not contingent on gender feminist approval or denial. Consider my "Independence" from all tyrannical gender feminist ideology "Declared" - Here & Now!

Men's Rights Activist

Life, Liberty, & Pursuit of Happiness are fundamental rights for all (including males), & not contingent on gender feminist approval or denial. Consider my "Independence" from all tyrannical gender feminist ideology "Declared" - Here & Now!

Men's Rights Activist

Life, Liberty, & Pursuit of Happiness are fundamental rights for all (including males), & not contingent on gender feminist approval or denial. Consider my "Independence" from all tyrannical gender feminist ideology "Declared" - Here & Now!

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