Women having difficulty finding men?

Started by zarby, Mar 29, 2006, 06:38 AM

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Sir Percy

A point for you two to consider. The body is a possession too. It is a possession of a person. It isn't the person themselves. For instance, if you lost your hand in an accident, you may be disabled somewhat but YOU, the person are not diminished. When we love someone, it is the person we love, not simply their body.
vil, like misery, is Protean, and never greater than when committed in the name of 'right'. To commit evil when they are convinced they are doing 'good', is one of the greatest of pleasures known to a feminist.

BRIAN

Sir Percy I would have to disagree with you. The body is the vessel of the soul and therefor it is an extension of the self and much more than a mere possession.
You may sleep soundly at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those who seek to harm you.

Sir Percy

Sure Brian, I understand that it isn't JUST a posession, but its a possession nonetheless. The interactivity and interconnectivity is not seperable, but there is a hierarchy of value and priority.
vil, like misery, is Protean, and never greater than when committed in the name of 'right'. To commit evil when they are convinced they are doing 'good', is one of the greatest of pleasures known to a feminist.

dr e

Quote from: "Factory"
Quote from: "lkanneg"
Quote from: "Factory"

FWIW, I suck at long term relationships....but the sex is really, REALLY good.  :)


Are you single at the moment? :twisted:

Oh, wait, never mind.  I'm a darn feminist...


I'm attached at the moment....but I bet the make up sex after our nightly fight would be fantastic.  :)


LOL!!!
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

the sad geek

Quote from: "Ikanneg"
Is there some moral superiority in being strongly attracted to someone's lovely body over being strongly attracted to someone's full wallet?


Let's see... the Song of Solomon or Ebenezer Scrooge.

Which do you think is superior, Ikanneg?
Alles van waarde is weerloos - Everything valuable is defenseless. (Lucebert)

contrarymary

I never never never went after the hot guy.  To be fair, I didn't think I was pretty enough to be in the running, but that wasn't the only reason.  I always prefered down-to-earth people to whom I could relate,  and really hot persons of either sex tend to be self-absorbed.    This is not always the case, but in my experience, it was usually the case.  

Hold on - because you're going to see where I was, in one case, very wrong.

More than a few women my age who have met T are downright jealous of what I have based on what I've told them and/or what they've seen.  T is a very handsome man.  He is almost 60 and I am going to be 51, btw.  We are both in good physical shape for any age, not just our own.  We both would like to lose five pounds because we'd both rather be slender than average, but it's not critical.

A few weeks ago, his sister mailed him some photos of himself when he was young.  His ex had stolen all his personal memorabilia when he was in prison awaiting release on bail, so I had never seen any before.

I saw one of the most drop-dead gorgeous young men ever - hands down.  The young blond man took my breath away.  An adonis.  Truly. I just sat and stared at them for about a half hour.

I finally told him, "It's a good thing we met when we did - I would have been too afraid to even talk to you."

Now I know the false accusations have taken their toll - he's always been modest, according to his sister, but never as self-denigrating as he is now.  It's the only time I ever asked his sister about his past - I have a policy where I do not discuss anything that goes on between us other than in generalities or here, where I'm anonymous, but I was in so much pain, not knowing how to help him and I was angry at his ex because I believed she was the source of his low self-worth and his sister said, "no, he wasn't always this way. He was modest but not lacking in self-esteem."

Anyway, he said he's never been good looking and that made me fight back tears, because he feels so badly about himself that he can't see the good anymore - an extremely painful result of being falsely accused is the damage it can do to one's psyche and opinion of oneself even when one realizes that none of what was alleged was true, one may begin to question one's  worth, as well as scrutinize every little mistep ever taken - but I digress.  

I have myself a treasure, despite the hard times which are usually external in nature as well as fighting personal demons on his part - and he IS very good looking, and WAS breathtaking when he was younger.

Can't always judge a book etc., etc.
quot;I can resist anything but temptation."

 Oscar Wilde

lkanneg

Quote from: "The sad geek"
Quote from: "Ikanneg"
Is there some moral superiority in being strongly attracted to someone's lovely body over being strongly attracted to someone's full wallet?


Let's see... the Song of Solomon or Ebenezer Scrooge.

Which do you think is superior, Ikanneg?


Don't understand the parallel.  The Song of Solomon is a collection of love poetry in the Bible and Ebenezer Scrooge is a fictional character in Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol.
quot;Remember no one can make you feel inferior without your consent."
--Eleanor Roosevelt

"Something which we think is impossible now is not impossible in another decade."
-- Constance Baker Motley

"Don't compromise yourself. You are all you've got."
--Janis Joplin

lkanneg

Quote from: "The sad geek"
Quote from: "Ikanneg"
Is there some moral superiority in being strongly attracted to someone's lovely body over being strongly attracted to someone's full wallet?


Let's see... the Song of Solomon or Ebenezer Scrooge.

Which do you think is superior, Ikanneg?


Don't understand the parallel.  The Song of Solomon is a collection of love poetry in the Bible and Ebenezer Scrooge is a fictional character in Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol.

How about the superiority of the love between Samson and Delilah, based upon her beauty, and between Benjamin and Mary Ann Disraeli, based upon her money?
quot;Remember no one can make you feel inferior without your consent."
--Eleanor Roosevelt

"Something which we think is impossible now is not impossible in another decade."
-- Constance Baker Motley

"Don't compromise yourself. You are all you've got."
--Janis Joplin

Malakas

Quote
Don't understand the parallel. The Song of Solomon is a collection of love poetry in the Bible and Ebenezer Scrooge is a fictional character in Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol.
Seemed obvious to me. The Song of Solomon is about the love of feminine beauty. 'A Christnas Carol' is about Scrooge's love of money.
Quote
How about the superiority of the love between Samson and Delilah, based upon her beauty, and between Benjamin and Mary Ann Disraeli, based upon her money?
Well Samson came to a sticky end. His love, if not blind to begin with, soon became so. When he was 'eyeless in Gaza' he had considerable pause for reflection - a potential MRA!

The Disraelis on the other hand did rather well. Perhaps if men married for money and women married for love we might get better results. :wink:
'm an asylum seeker. Don't send me back.

lkanneg

Quote from: "Malakas"
Quote
Don't understand the parallel. The Song of Solomon is a collection of love poetry in the Bible and Ebenezer Scrooge is a fictional character in Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol.
Seemed obvious to me. The Song of Solomon is about the love of feminine beauty. 'A Christnas Carol' is about Scrooge's love of money. :


Actually, you should reread the Song of Solomon...it's not about the love of only feminine beauty, and it isn't about loving beauty indiscriminately...its about loving one person in particular and celebrating his or her specific beauty.  

Yup, that's the reason I didn't get the parallel--we weren't discussing whether a person loving money better than anybody was morally superior to a person initially being attracted to someone's looks, we were discussing whether being initially attracted to someone's money was morally inferior to being initially attracted to someone's looks.

Quote from: "Malakas"
Quote
How about the superiority of the love between Samson and Delilah, based upon her beauty, and between Benjamin and Mary Ann Disraeli, based upon her money?
Well Samson came to a sticky end. His love, if not blind to begin with, soon became so. When he was 'eyeless in Gaza' he had considerable pause for reflection - a potential MRA!

The Disraelis on the other hand did rather well. Perhaps if men married for money and women married for love we might get better results. :wink:


;) Actually, until very recent times historically most everybody did marry for money.
quot;Remember no one can make you feel inferior without your consent."
--Eleanor Roosevelt

"Something which we think is impossible now is not impossible in another decade."
-- Constance Baker Motley

"Don't compromise yourself. You are all you've got."
--Janis Joplin

Malakas

Quote
Actually, you should reread the Song of Solomon...it's not about the love of only feminine beauty
You're right, it's not. But, unusually, for the Bible, the erotica stands out and sheds light on other ideas. When I worked in Pakistan I became a devotee of Qawali. This is a musical idiom which came from 16th century Persia. Erotic songs are interwined with religious messages comparing man's instinctive need to love woman with his basic need to love God. Over a few centuries it became a high form of Islamic art. Not a million miles from the Song of Solomon.

The moral thing is a bit more tricky. Morals are just rules that are generally ascribed to by most people in a group - they are not absolute. Before you can decide what's 'morally superior', everybody in the group must agree. There's usually at least one renegade.
Quote
Actually, until very recent times historically most everybody did marry for money
Totally agree - money, power, position, whatever. The only thing I object to is the word 'Actually'. :)
'm an asylum seeker. Don't send me back.

Factory

Quote from: "Malakas"
Quote
Actually, you should reread the Song of Solomon...it's not about the love of only feminine beauty
You're right, it's not. But, unusually, for the Bible, the erotica stands out and sheds light on other ideas. When I worked in Pakistan I became a devotee of Qawali. This is a musical idiom which came from 16th century Persia. Erotic songs are interwined with religious messages comparing man's instinctive need to love woman with his basic need to love God. Over a few centuries it became a high form of Islamic art. Not a million miles from the Song of Solomon.

The moral thing is a bit more tricky. Morals are just rules that are generally ascribed to by most people in a group - they are not absolute. Before you can decide what's 'morally superior', everybody in the group must agree. There's usually at least one renegade.
Quote
Actually, until very recent times historically most everybody did marry for money
Totally agree - money, power, position, whatever. The only thing I object to is the word 'Actually'. :)


I try very hard to keep my morals from being a moving target.  Moral relativism is killing modern society.

Malakas

Quote
I try very hard to keep my morals from being a moving target. Moral relativism is killing modern society.
Depends which society you're talking about. In the case of most western societies I would agree with you since there's no moral consensus. One man's moral is another man's poison.

'Thou shall't not kill' seems fair to most people. If so, why is woman killing man a lesser crime than man killing woman?

It's good to have moral standards, no argument. But we should examine where they come from and how they are applied. The 'high moral ground' is also a moving target in the current wars.

Thanks for your response.
'm an asylum seeker. Don't send me back.

JoeFin

Quote
we were discussing whether being initially attracted to someone's money was morally inferior to being initially attracted to someone's looks.


Actually there is nothing wrong with neither as long as "initially" remains the operative word. Reality is all too often it doesn't and neither is a sound bases for a relationship.

If a woman or man merely admires another for money or looks or how much money they can get or how much they can exploit those looks the union is disrespectful to some degree. So when a rich handsome man is attracted to plain-jane or vise versa it might be some thing other then looks or money playing the primary factor in their relationship.

I think a lot of men are waking up to these facts. In fact I know a few who hide their wealth when looking to meet a woman.
Resident Sh!! house attorney at large

the sad geek

Ikanneg, I was trying to clarify the difference between erotic attraction and materialism. Maybe the following will help (I'm assuming a relationship, like the original example by Brian):

    Eros - Mammon

  • Warm - Cold
  • Personal - Impersonal
  • Towards the other - Towards me
  • What the other is - What the other can do for me
  • Vulnerable - Powerful
  • Need, even worship - Want
  • Less ego - More ego

This is just my experience, other men may be different, women will most likely be very different. Maybe that's why we don't understand each other.
Alles van waarde is weerloos - Everything valuable is defenseless. (Lucebert)

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