OK - I need help from writers - DESPERATE PLEA

[Thomas]

I agree wholeheartedly, bluegrass. There may well be a back door, and some other posters have made excellent suggestions about what that might be and how to proceed. I think you're right that, especially in fiction, one needs to avoid smacking people over the head with a message. (Truth is stranger than fiction, because fiction has to make sense.) It's generally good to avoid preaching. Then again, many feminist pieces of fiction -- Marge Piercy's "Woman on the Edge of Time" comes to mind -- were grotesquely obvious in their messages but the books sold well. I guess there's just no telling about sales in advance, but the back door idea may be an excellent one.

BTW, thanks for the suggestions on the Danny Danziger series and on "Broken Flowers." I'll check them out.

ContraryMary, what you've seen here in a number of excellent posts is the way that good writing critique groups work. Everyone has a different perspective and different suggestions. Ultimately, though, it's your book. Everything else is just friendly advice that, in a fine critique group, can be graciously declined.

Are there any other writers here? I think we might be able to form an excellent critique group for writing related to men's issues or, for that matter, any subjects.

[contrarymary]

Again, thanks everyone.  I am waiting until the fever subsides before I read this thread - it's too important and I'm still too sick.  

I so very much appreciate all the thoughts.  The good news is that while I worked yesterday, I am actually off today AND tomorrow - so rare - and I'm hoping to be fully recovered by the time I go back.  I hate missing work and I actually added it up - in the past three years, I have only called out one time - this time.  Inasmuch as a good 60 percent of my customers come into the store because they are sick, it's not been easy.  I catch everything which goes around.

BUT I offered to make up the time next week.  We are too busy and too behind schedule.  

So I am sticking to other threads until I feel better.

Thanks.

[contrarymary]

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: OK - I need help from writers - DESPERATE PLEA  

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contrarymary wrote:
Is there any point in devoting all the time and passion writing such a book would take when I don't think I will find ANYONE who will publish it? Self-publishing is out of the question at those rates. I have read a few book and they were mostly targeted toward non-fiction instructional books. For obvious reasons, this book has to be written as fiction (even though it is not...)


Of course there's a point in doing it! Just realize that only 1 in about 250 books makes it moderately big. Only 1 in 100 makes a profit.


contrarymary wrote:
Secondly, how riveting do you all think a book about the impact of false accusations on not only the falsely accused by those who love him would be received?  


You MUST use active voice and as personal a story line as is possible.

The base story as I know it is important and as such can hold the interest of all. IF, if it is written clearly and actively: YOU must use active voice!

contrarymary wrote:
I'm wrestling with the format. I know what I'm attempting to convey, but I don't know how to convey it. We have two persons who are hurting due to bad choices - but some bad choices are more fatal than others ----


Focus on the hurt. Do not try to write a scholarly book: You don't have the background or credentials. Tell the story, tell it well. Make the reader care about the hurting people.

Do you think active will work best?

Yes, I can only focus on the hurt - I do feel, with help, I can tell it well, but I'm so immersed in the "story" myself - meaning I live it - to be truly objective about whether or not I can make readers "care".

That is why I may take the suggestion of an blog.  Very good suggestion.

As for the rest of my wonderful responses, I am taking them one at a time to do proper justice to each.  Still not feeling well

[TheManOnTheStreet]

Active is almost always the best form.  When passive, you tend to loose the reader to bordom, unless it's a technical manual or some such... :-)  But even then, Active is always best.

A book out there called The Write Stuff is a very good investment to assist you in this form of writing.  It is paperback and cost just a few dollars.  There are a couple of other low cost books that can helo, but I Cannot remember them right now.....

Still, as I said before, write using the "timeline" technique.  Coupled with active voice, you should get there easy enough.  Just dont get discouraged.  I have a BIG box full of rejections....  Find what you know, love, and want to write about, then go to it.  

Oh, and NEVER NEVER compromise.  Even if the editor/publisher says something like "well, change this and that and then well talk......"  Don't do it.  There plenty of publishers out there.  Shoot, I think I have a huge book here that gives you a list of publishers with their prefered genres.. I'll see if I can find it.

Al

[Thomas]

One of the things you'll find in a writing group, CM, is that people's suggestions sometimes contradict each other. As I said before, it's your work, so you have to decide which suggestions to accept and which to pass on.

As for active voice, it's generally the best. No one here has unequivocally said that passive voice should never be used, but some writers that I've encountered do declare that. With those writers, I disagree. If you'd like to see exquisite use of passive voice (employed sparingly and with care), take a look at some of the writing of Nobel Prize winner Nadine Gordimer. She uses passive voice to draw the reader into a haunting atmosphere.

As for not compromising for an editor, as the saying goes, life is full of compromises. If you have to compromise on some aspect of your work that doesn't render it worthless to or even contradictory to your message, then I'd say that it's good to consider compromising. It could mean the difference between getting published and getting a fine message out or not getting published and not getting a great message out.

Again and again and again, though, it's your book. You make the calls.

[contrarymary]

Again, thanks to all for your responses.  Still feeling very ill, and work is draining me, so please forgive me for putting off my replies.

Much affection to all.

[Sir Percy]

SAY not the struggle naught availeth,
        The labour and the wounds are vain,
The enemy faints not, nor faileth,
        And as things have been they remain.

If hopes were dupes, fears may be liars;
        It may be, in yon smoke conceal'd,
Your comrades chase e'en now the fliers,
        And, but for you, possess the field.

For while the tired waves, vainly breaking,
        Seem here no painful inch to gain,
Far back, through creeks and inlets making,
        Comes silent, flooding in, the Main.

And not by eastern windows only,
        When daylight comes, comes in the light;
In front the sun climbs slow, how slowly!
        But westward, look, the land is bright!


Arthur Hugh Clough didn't find publishers easily either. His life had myriad disappointments too. His language was difficult to grasp. Even more so now. But, by the Lord Harry, his words have lasting value. Yours will too Rosemarie.

[Raymond Cuttill]

Write it if you WANT to write it. Don't expect to make money. Possible but unlikely. Apart from writing groups I would recommend www.nanowrimo.org which is where you write a novel during the month of November (If you can wait that long. You could bend the rules and start early). Can be non-fiction etc. I've done it.  The encouragement to actually write is tremendous and it helps get over the "I'm going to write something someday" syndrome, which I did have. It also helps the get volume output (Stops "I have to spend all day getting that sentence perfect before I can write the next sentence"). If you have anything to get out, nanowrimo guarantees you get a first draft done, which for me was a lifetime first. Doesn't help with second draft etc. but the act of writing the first draft is a major hurdle.

You can self-publish anytime.  This can mean you pay a few hundred and your book ends up on a website or perhaps even Amazon. No guarantee it will sell. I publish as www.cyberManbooks.com (soon to change to www.menshourbooks.com) and would be interested in reading it. Cheaper, but no guarantee it would sell either. If it is very good some major publisher might be interested. Rare, as it getting an agent, and these days that doesn't guarantee anything as much as it once did. The other thing you would have to consider is self-publicity. Sending out PR, doing book signings or radio interviews. Hope that doesn't sound too depressing.  The one thing you definitely get is that you're an author and you're in print.

As I say, write it if you WANT to write it.

[contrarymary]

I agree wholeheartedly, bluegrass. There may well be a back door, and some other posters have made excellent suggestions about what that might be and how to proceed. I think you're right that, especially in fiction, one needs to avoid smacking people over the head with a message. (Truth is stranger than fiction, because fiction has to make sense.) It's generally good to avoid preaching. Then again, many feminist pieces of fiction -- Marge Piercy's "Woman on the Edge of Time" comes to mind -- were grotesquely obvious in their messages but the books sold well. I guess there's just no telling about sales in advance, but the back door idea may be an excellent one.

BTW, thanks for the suggestions on the Danny Danziger series and on "Broken Flowers." I'll check them out.

ContraryMary, what you've seen here in a number of excellent posts is the way that good writing critique groups work. Everyone has a different perspective and different suggestions. Ultimately, though, it's your book. Everything else is just friendly advice that, in a fine critique group, can be graciously declined.

Are there any other writers here? I think we might be able to form an excellent critique group for writing related to men's issues or, for that matter, any subjects.

OK, I'm still sick but I can't wait on this forever.

ARE there any others interesting in forming a critique group? I'm not going to be sick indefinitely, and I'm currently limited to 47 hours of work during the week - so I'll have some free time after I finish entering names in a database for T.

Please let me know.  PM me and I'll send you my email address or let me know here.