Take it as read: men prefer angst

Started by alien, Apr 06, 2006, 05:08 PM

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alien

Take it as read: men prefer angst


Albert Camus and Charlotte Bronte
____________________________________________

April 7, 2006

... but a study shows women like some passion between the covers, writes Charlotte Higgins.

THE novel that means most to men is about indifference, alienation and lack of emotional response. The novel that means most to women is about deeply held feelings and a struggle to overcome circumstances and passion.

Lisa Jardine and Annie Watkins, from the University of London's Queen Mary College, interviewed 500 men - many of whom had a professional connection with literature - about the novels that had changed their lives. The most frequently named book was Albert Camus's The Outsider, followed by J.D. Salinger's Catcher in the Rye and Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse-Five.

The Men's Milestone Fiction project, commissioned by the Orange Prize for Fiction and London's Guardian newspaper, followed on from the same team's research on women's favourite novels last year.

The results are strikingly different and there is little overlap between men's and women's taste. On the whole, men preferred books by dead white men - only one book by a woman, Harper Lee, appears in the list of the top 20 novels with which men most identify.

Women, by contrast, most frequently cited works by Charlotte and Emily Bronte, Margaret Atwood, George Eliot and Jane Austen.

Jardine said women also named a "much richer and more diverse" set of novels than men. There was a much broader mix between contemporary and classic works and between male and female authors.

"We found that men do not regard books as a constant companion to their life's journey, as consolers or guides, as women do," Jardine said. "They read novels a bit like they read photography manuals."

Women readers used much-loved books to support them through difficult times and emotional turbulence. They tended to employ them as metaphorical guides to behaviour, or as support and inspiration.

"The men's list was all angst and Orwell. Sort of puberty reading," she said. Ideas touching on isolation and "aloneness" were strong among the men's "milestone" books.

The researchers also found that women preferred old, well-thumbed paperbacks, whereas men leant towards the stiff covers of hardback books.

"We were completely taken aback by the results," said Jardine, who admitted they revealed a pattern verging on a gender cliche - women citing emotional, more domestic works, and men nominating novels about social dislocation and solitary struggle.

She was also surprised, she said, "by the firmness with which many men said that fiction didn't speak to them". For instance, the historian David Starkey said: "I fear fiction, of any sort, has never worked on me like that ... Is that perhaps interesting in itself?"

In addition, some men cited works of non-fiction as their "watershed" books, even though they were explicitly asked about fiction.

For example, David Cameron, leader of Britain's Conservative Party, picked out Robert Graves's World War I memoir Goodbye to All That as his watershed book. "Brilliantly written, wonderfully clear, and his description of life in [World War I] is harrowing but fascinating," he told the researchers.

Most of the men cited books they had read as teenagers, and many of them stopped reading fiction while young adults, only returning to it in late middle age.

Jardine said the research suggested the literary world was run by the wrong people. "What I find extraordinary is the hold the male cultural establishment has over book prizes like the Booker, for instance, and in deciding what is the best. This is completely at odds with their lack of interest in fiction. On the other hand, the Orange Prize for Fiction [which honours women authors] is still regarded as ephemeral."

She noted that when Daniel Defoe and Samuel Richardson had started writing novels in the 18th century, the new literary genre was regarded as strictly for women. "On the whole, men between the ages of 20 and 50 do not read fiction. This should have some impact on the book trade. There was a moment when car manufacturers realised that it was women who bought the family car, and the whole industry changed. We need fiction publishers - many of whom are women - to go through the same kind of recognition."

The Guardian
MEN'S LIST

1 Albert Camus The Outsider

2 J.D. Salinger The Catcher in the Rye

3 Kurt Vonnegut Slaughterhouse-Five

4 Gabriel Garcia Marquez One Hundred Years of Solitude

5 J.R.R. Tolkien The Hobbit

6 Joseph Heller Catch-22

7 George Orwell 1984

8 F. Scott Fitzgerald The Great Gatsby

9 Milan Kundera The Book of Laughter and Forgetting

10 Harper Lee To Kill a Mockingbird

11 Vladimir Nabokov Lolita

12 J.R.R. Tolkien The Lord of the Rings

and Fyodor Dostoevsky Crime and Punishment

14 Graham Greene Brighton Rock

15 Nick Hornby High Fidelity

16 James Joyce Ulysses

17 Mark Twain The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn

18 Joseph Conrad Heart of Darkness

19 Franz Kafka Metamorphosis

20 John Steinbeck The Grapes of Wrath
WOMEN'S LIST

1 Charlotte Bronte Jane Eyre

2 Emily Bronte Wuthering Heights

3 Margaret Atwood The Handmaid's Tale

4 George Eliot Middlemarch

5 Jane Austen Pride and Prejudice

6 Toni Morrison Beloved

7 Doris Lessing The Golden Notebook

8 Joseph Heller Catch-22

9 Marcel Proust Remembrance of Things Past

10 Jane Austen Persuasion

11 Mary Shelley Frankenstein

12 Jeanette Winterson Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit

13 Gabriel Garcia Marquez One Hundred Years of Solitude

14 George Eliot The Mill on the Floss

15 Louisa May Alcott Little Women

16 Gustave Flaubert Madame Bovary

17 C.S. Lewis The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe

18 Margaret Mitchell Gone with the Wind

19 Joseph Conrad Heart of Darkness

20 Harper Lee To Kill a Mockingbird

Thomas

I'm glad that I'm at least no longer surprised that these feminist nitwits are awarded any credibility.

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The most frequently named book (as a men's favorite) was Albert Camus's The Outsider, followed by J.D. Salinger's Catcher in the Rye and Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse-Five... On the whole, men preferred books by dead white men

Hmmm. As far as I know, both Vonnegut and Salinger are still alive.
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Women, by contrast, most frequently cited works by Charlotte and Emily Bronte, Margaret Atwood, George Eliot and Jane Austen.

Ahem. All but one is a dead, white woman. Funny the girls who did the "research" didn't point this out.

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Jardine said women also named a "much richer and more diverse" set of novels than men.

Ah, yes. Richer and, of course, having more diversity. Gotta get some form of that word in there.

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men leant towards the stiff covers of hardback books... the firmness with which many men said that fiction didn't speak to them

Umm. The stiff covers of hardback books... the firmness... No doubt the phallic imagery is purely coincidental. No insinuation intended. Nottachance. Nope.

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There was a moment when car manufacturers realised that it was women who bought the family car, and the whole industry changed. We need fiction publishers - many of whom are women - to go through the same kind of recognition."

Oh, well. No doubt. We must turn control of the publishing industry over to women even more than is already the case.
We Are Self-Exterminating Through The Collapse Of Fertility Rates.
The Death of Birth.
Fertility Rates Magazine.

SIAM

I'm surprised by both lists because they look like a Recommended Reading List a university lecturer would give to his students to study a history of popular literature - not necessarily a list of favourites - how come these people who were interviewed seem to ignore any book that was written in the last 50 years (with a few exceptions)?

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The Men's Milestone Fiction project, commissioned by the Orange Prize for Fiction and London's Guardian newspaper, followed on from the same team's research on women's favourite novels last year.


First off, it's two women from a university doing this "study" for a pro-feminist newspaper.  Wild guess: these female students are feminists.

OK, with that wild assumption, now let me assume these comments are nothing more than man-bashing:-

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The results are strikingly different and there is little overlap between men's and women's taste. On the whole, men preferred books by dead white men - only one book by a woman, Harper Lee, appears in the list of the top 20 novels with which men most identify.


Why use the loaded, much-used-by-feminists phrase bolded here? The women's list also features mainly dead white women.  Why not mention that?

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Jardine said women also named a "much richer and more diverse" set of novels than men. There was a much broader mix between contemporary and classic works and between male and female authors.


Now, what I want to know is: was this "finding" written before the actual "study" was conducted? The whole survey looks like nothing more than a device to show-off more female superiority - to create more softporn for feminists to get aroused by.

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"We found that men do not regard books as a constant companion to their life's journey, as consolers or guides, as women do," Jardine said. "They read novels a bit like they read photography manuals."


What, so angst is now not an emotion? Make up your mind girl.  

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Women readers used much-loved books to support them through difficult times and emotional turbulence. They tended to employ them as metaphorical guides to behaviour, or as support and inspiration.


How clever and wise women are to do this.  I bow before their superiority.

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"The men's list was all angst and Orwell. Sort of puberty reading," she said. Ideas touching on isolation and "aloneness" were strong among the men's "milestone" books.


Ah, yes - "sort of puberty reading" - these men are real doofuses, emotionally and mentally under-developed.

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She was also surprised, she said, "by the firmness with which many men said that fiction didn't speak to them". For instance, the historian David Starkey said: "I fear fiction, of any sort, has never worked on me like that ... Is that perhaps interesting in itself?"


How did they reach this conclusion, especially looking at the list of titles in the men's list?

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Jardine said the research suggested the literary world was run by the wrong people. "What I find extraordinary is the hold the male cultural establishment has over book prizes like the Booker, for instance, and in deciding what is the best. This is completely at odds with their lack of interest in fiction. On the other hand, the Orange Prize for Fiction [which honours women authors] is still regarded as ephemeral."


Ahh, now we find the reason for the study! To use some leverage and get some Affirmative Action happening in the literery arts - after all, this "study" proves everything - women are just better at books, aren't they? And.....men aren't interested in fiction? This flies right in the face of their "study" - they should look at the male list again. Looks like men love non-fiction.

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She noted that when Daniel Defoe and Samuel Richardson had started writing novels in the 18th century, the new literary genre was regarded as strictly for women. "On the whole, men between the ages of 20 and 50 do not read fiction. This should have some impact on the book trade. There was a moment when car manufacturers realised that it was women who bought the family car, and the whole industry changed. We need fiction publishers - many of whom are women - to go through the same kind of recognition."


The 18th century - this must have been the time when women were REALLY oppressed right? Yet they were the target market for the genteel pasttime of reading non-fiction.  Seems they were given at least some crumbs of comfort in their servitude :roll:

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On the whole, men between the ages of 20 and 50 do not read fiction. This should have some impact on the book trade


The female list shows many classic fiction too - maybe most of the women stopped reading at 20 too (to expand on this faulty thinking).

gwallan

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Lisa Jardine and Annie Watkins, from the University of London's Queen Mary College, interviewed 500 men - many of whom had a professional connection with literature - about the novels that had changed their lives.


Note the highlighted bit.


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The Men's Milestone Fiction project, commissioned by the Orange Prize for Fiction and London's Guardian newspaper, followed on from the same team's research on women's favourite novels last year.


Two different surveys. We are not really told what question was put to women. If we can interpret this literally though there is a difference between the "novel that changed one's life" and one's "favourite novel". I would certainly give different answers to those two questions.


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She was also surprised, she said, "by the firmness with which many men said that fiction didn't speak to them". For instance, the historian David Starkey said: "I fear fiction, of any sort, has never worked on me like that ... Is that perhaps interesting in itself?"


Men prefer reality over pretend possibly?
And note this man is an historian. What should he be reading? What would be important to him - fact or fiction.


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Most of the men cited books they had read as teenagers, and many of them stopped reading fiction while young adults, only returning to it in late middle age.


They were asked about what novels  had changed their lives remember. They generally cite books they had read as teenagers. Well durrr. And they return to fiction in late middle age? Surely they weren't too busy to read fiction during their working lives?
In 95% of things 100% of people are alike. It's the other 5%, the bits that are different, that make us interesting. It's also the key to our existence, and future, as a species.

hansside

From looking at the list I would have to say that men are better at choosing timeless classics concerning existential problems - e.g. Camus and Dostoevsky.

The women's list is more about situated gossip. The Handmaid's Tale is androphobic and misandric.


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"The men's list was all angst and Orwell. Sort of puberty reading," she said. Ideas touching on isolation and "aloneness" were strong among the men's "milestone" books.


Hehe. I have yet to meet a feminist that has something positive to say about Orwell. Maybe the do not like the fact that he so clearly sees through totalitarianism or his insistence on reality and nature.

Further, calling literature concerning the human condition puberty reading just show how hopelessly materialistic these women are.

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THE novel that means most to men is about indifference, alienation and lack of emotional response.


From this it is safe to conclude that the authors of the study have understood nothing of the books on the men's list.

Thomas

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THE novel that means most to men is about indifference, alienation and lack of emotional response.


And they cite "Slaughterhouse Five"!!!! Maybe the authoresses should read the books before they pass judgment on them. The main character in "Slaughterhouse Five", Billy Pilgrim, was so moved by the horrors that he witnessed in the firebombing of Dresden -- his empathy and emotional response were so profound -- that he became unstuck in time.

It is, BTW, one of the finest novels that I've ever read (three times so far).

Advocacy research anyone?
We Are Self-Exterminating Through The Collapse Of Fertility Rates.
The Death of Birth.
Fertility Rates Magazine.

woof

A good piece to show how to get your pre-conceved notions to match your conclutions.
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"We were completely taken aback by the results," said Jardine, who admitted they revealed a pattern verging on a gender cliche - women citing emotional, more domestic works, and men nominating novels about social dislocation and solitary struggle.

I haven't read all of these books, so correct me if I am wrong, but aren't most of these books fiction?....Catcher in the Rye, Slaughterhouse-Five, The Hobbit, Catch-22, 1984, To Kill a MockingBird....?

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1 Albert Camus The Outsider

2 J.D. Salinger The Catcher in the Rye

3 Kurt Vonnegut Slaughterhouse-Five

4 Gabriel Garcia Marquez One Hundred Years of Solitude

5 J.R.R. Tolkien The Hobbit

6 Joseph Heller Catch-22

7 George Orwell 1984

8 F. Scott Fitzgerald The Great Gatsby

9 Milan Kundera The Book of Laughter and Forgetting

10 Harper Lee To Kill a Mockingbird

11 Vladimir Nabokov Lolita

12 J.R.R. Tolkien The Lord of the Rings

and Fyodor Dostoevsky Crime and Punishment

14 Graham Greene Brighton Rock

15 Nick Hornby High Fidelity

16 James Joyce Ulysses

17 Mark Twain The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn

18 Joseph Conrad Heart of Darkness

19 Franz Kafka Metamorphosis

What is she talking about?
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In addition, some men cited works of non-fiction as their "watershed" books, even though they were explicitly asked about fiction.
Even a whole village can't replace dad, children need both parents.

PaulGuelph

The article is a good study on how things can be described in the negative or a positive way.

Whenever a female interest was described is was descibed positively. Anything male was described negatively.

Like a grade school essay, the article showed a completely transparent bias.
Men's Movie Guide:  http://www.mensmovieguide.com   The Healing Tomb: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081N1X145

Sir Jessy of Anti

That is the most condescending clap trap I have read in a while.
"The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master." -- Ayn Rand<br /><br />

whome112

Feminist clap-trap.

The men are wrong: The women are right and that's all there is to it!

BAH!

Also, they've sampled those who are high-brow in literature. These people's tastes generally do not reflect the tastes of most people. Although, I must admit that a few of my own favorites are on both lists.

I've read Tolkein every time I had big trouble in my life: It settles and soothes me.

Missing from the list is Delderfield's "To Serve Them All My Days." Which is a wonderful book to settle a troubled mind and a watershed book on how to survive the nastiness of life.

whome
ay what you mean: Mean what you say.
http://jwwells.blogspot.com

Matt99

constant companion to their life's journey

im sorry, that just sounds rediculous.

and i can say hand on heart that no story would ever make it even through a publishers if it was about lack of emotional response.

deeply held feelings and a struggle to overcome circumstances and passion.

now that can be appiled to any humans book. It seems this article is all about making men into sub-human, un- feeling creatures. The mens list is full of passion and feeling. I mean they are by no means the superior and contrived epic feelings involved in pride and predudice (you know, the one where the hunt for love is caused by economic problems, and finishes when they get money again).

its seems that wimmin just love books about other wimmin. Fight the power. not that its narrowminded or anything.

oh, and one more thing. How the hell did they find out that our wimmen liked "well thumbed paperbacks" what did they survey form look like?

do you prefer....

A) A Hard, Cold, Stiff backed novel (you know, like the one your dad used to hit you with)

B) A well thumbed paperback, plucked fresh from the fingertips of our favourite Bronte, or resident Austen. (Whose surnames when totalled up almost comprise of a quater of that list- not that its narrowminded or anything)

C) a regular paperback

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