Top Ten Reasons Why Men Should Not Be Ordained

Started by mens_issues, Apr 10, 2006, 10:00 AM

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mens_issues

I was invited to a Christian forum recently, and was dismayed to find this posted there as "humor"

Quote
I don't know if you've seen this, but it's floating around on a few blogs:

Top Ten Reasons Why Men Should Not Be Ordained

10. A man's place is in the army.
9. For men who have children, their duties might distract them from the responsibilities of being a parent.
8. Their physical build indicates that men are more suited to tasks such as chopping down trees and wrestling mountain lions. It would be "unnatural" for them to do other forms of work.
7. Man was created before woman. It is therefore obvious that man was a prototype. Thus, they represent an experiment, rather than the crowning achievement of creation.
6. Men are too emotional to be priests or pastors. This is easily demonstrated by their conduct at football games and watching basketball tournaments.
5. Some men are handsome; they will distract women worshipers.
4. To be ordained pastor is to nurture the congregation. But this is not a traditional male role. Rather, throughout history, women have been considered to be not only more skilled than men at nurturing, but also more frequently attracted to it. This makes them the obvious choice for ordination.
3. Men are overly prone to violence. No really manly man wants to settle disputes by any means other than by fighting about it. Thus, they would be poor role models, as well as being dangerously unstable in positions of leadership.
2. Men can still be involved in church activities, even without being ordained. They can sweep paths, repair the church roof, and maybe even lead the singing on Father's Day. By confining themselves to such traditional male roles, they can still be vitally important in the life of the Church.
1. In the New Testament account, the person who betrayed Jesus was a man. Thus, his lack of faith and ensuing punishment stands as a symbol of the subordinated position that all men should take.


I sent this reply, but new members are moderated and I'm not sure if my message will be posted:

I'm sorry, but I was just invited to join this group recently, only to find this male-bashing message presented as "humor."  This is disappointing to see in a Christian group.  I might get attacked for posting this here, but perhaps you would like to see the other side of sexism, which is explained in this .pdf file:

http://www.mensactivism.org/activism_files/what_are_mens_issues.pdf

The brochure was adapted by me from a post originally written by a woman involved in father's rights and men's issues.

Men may be overrepresented at the top tiers of society, but that says nothing of who benefits from this (e.g. the wife of a doctor or lawyer gets to benefit from his income, while the fact that most politicans are male is irrelevant as the majority of voters are women and politicians tend to support women's issues regardless of whether they are male or female.)

Also, I'm the founder of a group called Men's Issues Online.  I don't know if I'm supposed to post the URL of this or not, but here it is anyway:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MensIssuesOnline

As you can see from the introduction, the group is not anti-woman but merely seeks to address issues affecting men such as divorce and custody, health and safety, education and domestic violence laws.

Attack me if you will for posting this, but I'm sick of one-sided anti-male attitudes in society, and won't put up with it anymore.

Steve Van Valkenburg
Men's Issues Online - a voice for men's advocacy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MensIssuesOnline

Follow Male Positive Media on Twitter - https://twitter.com/MalePositive

johnnyp

That is a very troubling post.  Christian religion used to be one of the few parts of society that still respected men and also expected them to lead.
 woman needs a man like a fish needs water

VK

Quote from: "mens_issues"
I was invited to a Christian forum recently, and was dismayed to find this posted there as "humor"



Not particularly humourous, but I don't think it is an serious attempt to bash men - it's a parody of the reasons typically given on why women should not be ordained. Yes, the ideas in it are riduculously sexist but it is meant to mock the idea that there is some huge reason why either sex would be more suitable for the role.

For example - "a man's place is in the army" is obviously taken from "a woman's place is in the home" and etc. The point is you are supposed to recognise these statements as anti-male, and thus is mocking the anti-female nature of the original ideas.

lkanneg

Quote from: "mens_issues"


Top Ten Reasons Why Men Should Not Be Ordained

10. A man's place is in the army.
9. For men who have children, their duties might distract them from the responsibilities of being a parent.
8. Their physical build indicates that men are more suited to tasks such as chopping down trees and wrestling mountain lions. It would be "unnatural" for them to do other forms of work.
7. Man was created before woman. It is therefore obvious that man was a prototype. Thus, they represent an experiment, rather than the crowning achievement of creation.
6. Men are too emotional to be priests or pastors. This is easily demonstrated by their conduct at football games and watching basketball tournaments.
5. Some men are handsome; they will distract women worshipers.
4. To be ordained pastor is to nurture the congregation. But this is not a traditional male role. Rather, throughout history, women have been considered to be not only more skilled than men at nurturing, but also more frequently attracted to it. This makes them the obvious choice for ordination.
3. Men are overly prone to violence. No really manly man wants to settle disputes by any means other than by fighting about it. Thus, they would be poor role models, as well as being dangerously unstable in positions of leadership.
2. Men can still be involved in church activities, even without being ordained. They can sweep paths, repair the church roof, and maybe even lead the singing on Father's Day. By confining themselves to such traditional male roles, they can still be vitally important in the life of the Church.
1. In the New Testament account, the person who betrayed Jesus was a man. Thus, his lack of faith and ensuing punishment stands as a symbol of the subordinated position that all men should take.

[/quote]

You know, this looked awfully familiar to me...is it still plagiarism if it's taken completely out of context and from over a century ago?  I remembered where I'd seen it (more or less) before, and here it is:

"Why We Oppose Votes for Men
From the book Are Women People? by Alice Duer Miller, 1915.
Why We Oppose Votes for Men

1. BECAUSE man's place is the armory.

2. Because no really manly man wants to settle any question otherwise than by fighting about it.

3. Because if men should adopt peaceable methods women will no longer look up to them.

4. Because men will lose their charm if they step out of their natural sphere and interest themselves in other matters than feats of arms, uniforms and drums.

5. Because men are too emotional to vote. Their conduct at baseball games and political conventions shows this, while their innate tendency to appeal to force renders them peculiarly unfit for the task of government.

The author of this volume of feminist humor and satire, Alice Duer Miller, wrote many of the pieces for her column in the New York Tribune, "Are Women People?"

http://womenshistory.about.com/cs/suffrage/a/men_not_vote.htm
quot;Remember no one can make you feel inferior without your consent."
--Eleanor Roosevelt

"Something which we think is impossible now is not impossible in another decade."
-- Constance Baker Motley

"Don't compromise yourself. You are all you've got."
--Janis Joplin

CaptDMO

Quote from: "lkanneg"


You know, this looked awfully familiar to me...is it still plagiarism if it's taken completely out of context and from over a century ago?....


Umm, no, not plagiarism, I'd say it safely falls under ridicule if it isn't
lifted word for word, yet mocks the text -clearly point by point.
Retort?
Lampoon?
Discredit?
Winge?
Sarcasm?
Sardonic?
Wry?
Satire-on-satire smackdown?

But I suppose it's always good to see a group that shows it may have a sense of humor. Perhaps someone more sympathetic toward the writings of Dr. Schwyzer might be willing to forward this piece to that site. Or perhaps to the next Carnival of "(and their allies)"?

It may be interesting to find the origional piece that Alice Duer Miller lifted
her material to satire from for her piece "Are Women People?", and whatever else passed for feminist humor back then in the dark ages. Personally, I've never heard of her until now, but then, I live a cloistered life. ;)

mens_issues

I should add that I'm not actually against women having a prominent
role in the church, or even being ordained, but just wanted to
present a "male perspective" on this.  I also realize that this was
intended as a spoof, but sometimes people get tired of gender
stereotypes.

In fact, I remember going to a church about 10 years ago when I
lived in Ft. Worth where they didn't allow a woman to lead a musical
group due to their interpretation of the writings of Paul.  I didn't
think this was fair, and found another church after that.

Steve
Men's Issues Online - a voice for men's advocacy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MensIssuesOnline

Follow Male Positive Media on Twitter - https://twitter.com/MalePositive

Rob Layton

Quote from: "johnnyp"
That is a very troubling post.  Christian religion used to be one of the few parts of society that still respected men and also expected them to lead.


Dont worry Bro, God is big enough to look after himself :D
I see this often. These kind of posts are written by people who have never taken time to read the bible. If they had taken the time, they could see that they were spouting herrasy. Often the things that we want, and what God wants, are two different things.
You can change the rules of man, but no matter how you try, you will never change the rules of God. :D

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