Male Vs. Female Pedophiles Debate

Started by TheSage, Jun 11, 2006, 12:24 PM

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Galt

Am I seeing double?

typhonblue

Quote from: "Galt"
Am I seeing double?


Naw... I just thought I'd repost it with the genders reversed.

jaketk

Quote from: "TheSage"
Quote from: "jaketk"
How curious that you chose an article that had no citation to a specific study. Again, this thread is nothing more than a strawman.


And so, I have proven my point.


Actually, no you haven't. On the other thread posters presented articles and with citations to studies or the results of the studies , not just articles with random unsupported claims.

TheSage

Summary

From this experiment, I have proven three things:

1.  Case studies and research can be chosen to fit a certain person or group’s cause while others studies and research that may threaten the person or group’s cause can be left out.  This is exactly what I had done in the experiment.

How would a person determine which persons or groups use case studies in discrimination?  The studies usually show data in favor of their cause without promoting the possibility that such data can be reasonably disputed by an opposing party.  Groups that are concerned with the benefits or rights of a single gender, ethnic group or race usually work toward finding studies and research that will benefit them in particular, and some ignore studies and research that may jeopardize their cause.  Any group who labels themselves by a particular gender or race will more than likely focus only on making things better for that particular group and may even oppose others who are not of that group.  Examples of groups named by genders and race are:  Women’s Rights Activists, Men’s Rights Activists, National Advancement Association For Colored People, ect.    This is exactly what I did in this experiment to show how a person or group can discriminate in case studies.

2.  Case studies can be reasonably disputed.

Several of the subjects involved in this experiment were able to dispute all the data I had provided like I hoped they would.  Their arguments were that the data had “unsupported claims,” that the data was gender-biased because of ratio differences between the sexes, and that the data -- one I hadn’t even considered -- was not recent. [The issue of the studies and research provided not being “recent” will come back to haunt you in phase two of this debate.]  Studies and research that isn’t recent will be regarded as invalid by some.  However, while the subjects in this experiment disputed the ‘proof’ that had been given, they provided no recent studies and research to prove that:

A.  Women commit sexual crimes at equal rates as men
B.  Women commit sexual crimes with the same vicious brutality as men
C.  Women force their victims into sexual acts in most cases.

[This refers to female-on-male rape]

Because the subjects in this experiment failed to produce this data, this issue still remains inconclusive, and can, therefore, still be disputed with no real measure of ‘truth’ to either side.

3.  Case studies cannot be considered ‘definitive truth.’

One common thing that most of the studies and research did insinuate -- even the ones that I deliberately chose not to use -- is that there is a possibility that more boys (and men, perhaps) are being sexually abused by women and not reporting it.  If this is so, then none of the case studies regarding female sex offenders is ‘definitive truth’ because many female-sex-offender cases would be unaccounted for.  Researchers cannot work with material they do not have.  Boys and men who do not report sexual abuse by female perpetrators may be doing a great disservice to boys and men as a whole.  If boys and men do not come forward about their incidences of sexual abuse by females, case studies and research will only show a dimunitive amount of females perpetrating such crimes, and furture boys and men who are sexually abused by females may find it difficult to convince others of the credibility of their claims.  This is a highly controversial issue.

The question as to why these boys aren’t reporting these crimes remains unanswered. Could it be that these boys are more ashamed to come forward about sexual abuse at the hands of a female?  Could it be that boys feel they will not be believed because the perpetrator is a female?  Is it possible that most boys do not feel victimized and are willing subjects in the sexual act?  Considering my experiences in hanging out with teenage boys when I was a teenager myself and hearing them talk about teachers they would like to “bone,” female newscasters they would like to “f***,” and other “hot” women they would like to “screw,” the latter possibility seems to be the most plausible.  In fact, this excerpt from Female Sexual Abuser:  A Theory Of Loss states this:

Quote

Risen and Koss report that there were almost as many female perpetrators (42.7%) as male (53.3%), with a small proportion involving both a male and a female together (4.2%).   Almost half of the females perpetrators were adolescent babysitters.  Almost half of the boys involved with female perpetrators reported that they participated in the incidents voluntarily and did not feel victimized.  The authors note that this suggests qualitatively different experiences were tapped in this study compared to other surveys.



Still, no one has the undisputed answer to this question.  This theory can be brutally argued until the end of time because:

1.  This report was made in 1987 and some would argue, like the subjects in this experiment, that date of this article is too old to be considered valid.

2.  The excerpt states that almost half of the boys involved with female perpetrators participated in the incidents voluntarily and did not feel victimized, so it could possibly mean that there were more boys who might have felt victimized by the female perpetrators.

One the other end of this argument, one could argue that this study is biased because it did not show statistics of consent and non-consent for girl victims of sexual abuse.  If studies for consent and non-consent had been done for girl victims, one could compare the ratio of underage girls who consented to sex acts with adult males to see if the ratio is lower than the ratio of the underage boys who consented to sex with adult females.  If the ratio is lower, they could argue that this “fact,” blended with the “fact” that girls are sexually abused at higher rates than boys, makes girls more affected by sexual abuse than boys.  Both boys’ and girls’ claims of consent and non-consent could be argued as well with the “did-someone-brainwash-them-into-thinking-they-were-traumatized” theory, therefore making their claims of non-consent suspicious.  Hence, to each his own.  One thing that is undisputed truth is that the law states that it is unlawful for an adult -- male or female -- the have sex with an underage child.  States may vary as to what the age of consent is, but the law in its raw form remains undisputed.

Thanks to those of you who are bearing with me on this one.

---Soon, Phase Two

gwallan

Quote from: "TheSage"
Several of the subjects involved in this experiment were able to dispute all the data I had provided like I hoped they would. Their arguments were that the data had “unsupported claims,” that the data was gender-biased because of ratio differences between the sexes, and that the data -- one I hadn’t even considered -- was not recent. [The issue of the studies and research provided not being “recent” will come back to haunt you in phase two of this debate.] Studies and research that isn’t recent will be regarded as invalid by some. However, while the subjects in this experiment disputed the ‘proof’ that had been given, they provided no recent studies and research to prove that:


...subjects in this experiment?
...will come back to haunt you?

Experiment?
In 95% of things 100% of people are alike. It's the other 5%, the bits that are different, that make us interesting. It's also the key to our existence, and future, as a species.

Sir Galahad

Quote from: "TheSage"
Summary

From this experiment, I have proven three things:

1.  Case studies and research can be chosen to fit a certain person or group's cause while others studies and research that may threaten the person or group's cause can be left out.  This is exactly what I had done in the experiment.

How would a person determine which persons or groups use case studies in discrimination?  The studies usually show data in favor of their cause without promoting the possibility that such data can be reasonably disputed by an opposing party.  Groups that are concerned with the benefits or rights of a single gender, ethnic group or race usually work toward finding studies and research that will benefit them in particular, and some ignore studies and research that may jeopardize their cause.  Any group who labels themselves by a particular gender or race will more than likely focus only on making things better for that particular group and may even oppose others who are not of that group.  Examples of groups named by genders and race are:  Women's Rights Activists, Men's Rights Activists, National Advancement Association For Colored People, ect.    This is exactly what I did in this experiment to show how a person or group can discriminate in case studies.

2.  Case studies can be reasonably disputed.

Several of the subjects involved in this experiment were able to dispute all the data I had provided like I hoped they would.  Their arguments were that the data had "unsupported claims," that the data was gender-biased because of ratio differences between the sexes, and that the data -- one I hadn't even considered -- was not recent. [The issue of the studies and research provided not being "recent" will come back to haunt you in phase two of this debate.]  Studies and research that isn't recent will be regarded as invalid by some.  However, while the subjects in this experiment disputed the 'proof' that had been given, they provided no recent studies and research to prove that:

A.  Women commit sexual crimes at equal rates as men
B.  Women commit sexual crimes with the same vicious brutality as men
C.  Women force their victims into sexual acts in most cases.

[This refers to female-on-male rape]

Because the subjects in this experiment failed to produce this data, this issue still remains inconclusive, and can, therefore, still be disputed with no real measure of 'truth' to either side.

3.  Case studies cannot be considered 'definitive truth.'

One common thing that most of the studies and research did insinuate -- even the ones that I deliberately chose not to use -- is that there is a possibility that more boys (and men, perhaps) are being sexually abused by women and not reporting it.  If this is so, then none of the case studies regarding female sex offenders is 'definitive truth' because many female-sex-offender cases would be unaccounted for.  Researchers cannot work with material they do not have.  Boys and men who do not report sexual abuse by female perpetrators may be doing a great disservice to boys and men as a whole.  If boys and men do not come forward about their incidences of sexual abuse by females, case studies and research will only show a dimunitive amount of females perpetrating such crimes, and furture boys and men who are sexually abused by females may find it difficult to convince others of the credibility of their claims.  This is a highly controversial issue.

The question as to why these boys aren't reporting these crimes remains unanswered. Could it be that these boys are more ashamed to come forward about sexual abuse at the hands of a female?  Could it be that boys feel they will not be believed because the perpetrator is a female?  Is it possible that most boys do not feel victimized and are willing subjects in the sexual act?  Considering my experiences in hanging out with teenage boys when I was a teenager myself and hearing them talk about teachers they would like to "bone," female newscasters they would like to "f***," and other "hot" women they would like to "screw," the latter possibility seems to be the most plausible.  In fact, this excerpt from Female Sexual Abuser:  A Theory Of Loss states this:

Quote

Risen and Koss report that there were almost as many female perpetrators (42.7%) as male (53.3%), with a small proportion involving both a male and a female together (4.2%).   Almost half of the females perpetrators were adolescent babysitters.  Almost half of the boys involved with female perpetrators reported that they participated in the incidents voluntarily and did not feel victimized.  The authors note that this suggests qualitatively different experiences were tapped in this study compared to other surveys.



Still, no one has the undisputed answer to this question.  This theory can be brutally argued until the end of time because:

1.  This report was made in 1987 and some would argue, like the subjects in this experiment, that date of this article is too old to be considered valid.

2.  The excerpt states that almost half of the boys involved with female perpetrators participated in the incidents voluntarily and did not feel victimized, so it could possibly mean that there were more boys who might have felt victimized by the female perpetrators.

One the other end of this argument, one could argue that this study is biased because it did not show statistics of consent and non-consent for girl victims of sexual abuse.  If studies for consent and non-consent had been done for girl victims, one could compare the ratio of underage girls who consented to sex acts with adult males to see if the ratio is lower than the ratio of the underage boys who consented to sex with adult females.  If the ratio is lower, they could argue that this "fact," blended with the "fact" that girls are sexually abused at higher rates than boys, makes girls more affected by sexual abuse than boys.  Both boys' and girls' claims of consent and non-consent could be argued as well with the "did-someone-brainwash-them-into-thinking-they-were-traumatized" theory, therefore making their claims of non-consent suspicious.  Hence, to each his own.  One thing that is undisputed truth is that the law states that it is unlawful for an adult -- male or female -- the have sex with an underage child.  States may vary as to what the age of consent is, but the law in its raw form remains undisputed.

Thanks to those of you who are bearing with me on this one.

---Soon, Phase Two


If we are going to discount case studies, which are the only source of data in cases such as this, then what is the purpose of this thread?  The debate the philosophical merits of male pedo's vs. female pedo's?  By the way, do you still stand by this statement:

Quote
I have no pity for boys who claim they were 'raped.' That's pure fictious trash!

TheSage

Sir Galahad, I like you.  I've noticed throughout this entire debate, you've expressed your opposing views  and you did so respectfully without referring to my posts as "rubbish," "bulls***," or taking my boardname and twisting it into an insult.  Some others have done the same; and because you guys did, I will allow my heart to soften.  I respect, and will continue to respect, everyone on this board as long as they respect me.  Never have I cursed anyone on this board, even when things have gotten bleak.  I have never directed insults to anyone on this board.  And I have never made a vicious attack on anyone's personal opinions concerning an issue on this board. I simply state whether or not I agree as respectfully as I can, (sometimes emotionally) and that's it.  As long as everyone does the same on my behalf, then comments like ...

Quote

I have no pity for boys who claim they were 'raped.' That's pure fictious trash!


will never be posted.  This was posted out of sheer anger.  Do I believe what I posted?  Only for those boys who consented to sex with older women, and later reported it as rape.  For boys who were actually forced -- of course not!  I am not that cruel.  Honestly, though, when I posted that statement, I was so enraged by some of the posts that I perceived as disrespectful until I didn't really think about the comment until after it was posted.  When I thought about what I wrote, I realized how horrible it was and felt somewhat contrite about it, but I was to stubborn to admit it.

Have Fun!

I'll continue with phase two of this debate, but I will try to be more genial about the debate rather than hateful.

Sir Percy

Quote
:

I have no pity for boys who claim they were 'raped.' That's pure fictious trash!

.....This was posted out of sheer anger.


Oh well, that's all right then. :roll: Join the Dworkins and the Bidens of the world. Get published. Be infamous. Get biased laws passed. Ruin  a host of lives. Make a weak apology later.

Quote
When I thought about what I wrote, I realized how horrible it was and felt somewhat contrite about it, but I was to stubborn to admit it.

Have Fun!


Sounds like a femonazi legislator in the making. Just how do we 'have fun' about this, Sage brush?
vil, like misery, is Protean, and never greater than when committed in the name of 'right'. To commit evil when they are convinced they are doing 'good', is one of the greatest of pleasures known to a feminist.

Sir Galahad

Quote
Do I believe what I posted?  Only for those boys who consented to sex with older women, and later reported it as rape.


Ignoring for the moment that no person under the age of 16 can legally consent in most states, how do you feel about girls who have "consentual" sex with older men, and then report it as rape?  That would seem to be a greater "epidemic" than boys screaming "rape" on older women.  You seem to have rather selective rage, especially for a supposed MRA.

TheManOnTheStreet

Still waiting.........

TMOTS
The Man On The Street is on the street for a reason.......
_________________________________
It's not illegal to be male.....yet.

TheSage

Quote from: "Sir Percy"
Quote
:

I have no pity for boys who claim they were 'raped.' That's pure fictious trash!

.....This was posted out of sheer anger.


Oh well, that's all right then. :roll: Join the Dworkins and the Bidens of the world. Get published. Be infamous. Get biased laws passed. Ruin  a host of lives. Make a weak apology later.

Quote
When I thought about what I wrote, I realized how horrible it was and felt somewhat contrite about it, but I was to stubborn to admit it.

Have Fun!


Sounds like a femonazi legislator in the making. Just how do we 'have fun' about this, Sage brush?


Oh, Sir Percy ...  how much you have to learn.  That wasn't an apology.  That was an explanation.  Do not confuse the two.

TheSage

Quote from: "Sir Galahad"
Quote
Do I believe what I posted?  Only for those boys who consented to sex with older women, and later reported it as rape.


Ignoring for the moment that no person under the age of 16 can legally consent in most states, how do you feel about girls who have "consentual" sex with older men, and then report it as rape?  That would seem to be a greater "epidemic" than boys screaming "rape" on older women.  You seem to have rather selective rage, especially for a supposed MRA.


Whoa!  No offense, but hold up.  I am NOT a Men's Right Activist.  Just the labeling alone is sexist in my opinion.  I am more of an ERA -- an Equal Rights Activist.

Quote
That would seem to be a greater "epidemic" than boys screaming "rape" on older women.


I don't mean to be sarcastic, but considering every claim made in this thread must be supported with 'proof,' is there any studies or research to support this claim?

Sir Percy

Quote
Oh, Sir Percy ... how much you have to learn. That wasn't an apology. That was an explanation. Do not confuse the two.


O foolish me. Of course it wasn't an apology. Weak or otherwise. What an optimistic lad I am ( as well as unlearned). Not much of an explanation either for that matter.
vil, like misery, is Protean, and never greater than when committed in the name of 'right'. To commit evil when they are convinced they are doing 'good', is one of the greatest of pleasures known to a feminist.

TheSage

Phase Two

If you can ‘prove’ to me that women commit sex crimes at the same rate as men, that women force their victims into sexual acts in most cases with brutality, and that women can force boys (or men) into penetrative sex, I will post a message that reads: “I stand corrected.”  

This may not be an easy task.  I will stringently scrutinize all ‘proof.’


The following data is what I will need:

A.  Find research or statistics that show that females commit equal amounts of sex crimes as men.  If possible, provide the total number of female sex offenders and the total number of male sex offenders.  Research and statistics must be recent.

B.  Find at least 30* female sex offenders.  They must be female-on-male rape sex offenders who forced their victims into sexual acts.

C.  Find 10* female sex offenders that have engaged in necrophilia and cannabalism.

D.  Find at least 20* who have killed their victims.

E.  Find scientific proof that ‘proves’ that boys can be coerced into having erections and forcibly raped.

If the data provided can be reasonably disputed, I will post an “Invalid Data” message and state why it can be disputed.

The point of this phase is not to insult or offend anyone.  I simply want to see the ‘truth.’

*If you can find more numbers of women in each of the instances, please post them.  It will help in convincing me.

Shall we begin?

Galt

Quote from: "TheSage"
Phase Two


Uh-oh.  Now I have exam anxiety.  And I'm apparently being tested by a college student.

Quote
The following data is what I will need:


Sorry, I had all of that stuff but then my dog ate the homework.

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