Here We Go Again

[Christiane]

the men start to realise what a bum deal it is for men.

No, SP, stay at home mom's are not a bum deal for men.  

And stay at home mom's are not a bum deal for women.

And stay at home dad's are not a bum deal for men.

And stay at home dad's are not a bum deal for women.

These are called lifestyle choices.   Not bum deals.

[gwallan]

The question was "Do you have any suggestions on how to go about that?" I'm curious to hear what you have to say about that.

If I may butt in I reckon that compiling and exposing feminism's ongoing depiction of SAHMs as little more than "drones" would be a good starting point. It's been going on since the seventies at least so there's plenty of ammunition. Very few people like their intelligence and "usefullness" being demeaned and feminism has been doing this with SAHMs for ever. The real difficulty is in getting the message out there to the target audience.

[Christiane]

As always, I love you dearly.   Yes, target an insulted audience with half a brain, and you might get results.   How to go about that, I'm not an expert, but it can't be rocket science.  

The feminist movement has been ridiculing and insulting the SAHM segment of the female population for 20 years.   We're so done with them.   Woo us.   We love men.    We will come to you....      

[typhonblue]

As always, I love you dearly.   Yes, target an insulted audience with half a brain, and you might get results.   How to go about that, I'm not an expert, but it can't be rocket science.  

The feminist movement has been ridiculing and insulting the SAHM segment of the female population for 20 years.   We're so done with them.   Woo us.   We love men.    We will come to you....      

Of course you love men. Without them you would be working.

[dr e]

Thanks Christiane, please do think on it.  Your perspective could be very helpful.  We must find allies and lots of them because we are few in number and up against a mammoth foe.

the men start to realise what a bum deal it is for men.

No, SP, stay at home mom's are not a bum deal for men.  

And stay at home mom's are not a bum deal for women.

And stay at home dad's are not a bum deal for men.

And stay at home dad's are not a bum deal for women.

These are called lifestyle choices.   Not bum deals.

Yes, and who has the choices?

[Christiane]

We are working.   Go fuck yourself, tb.

I'll proudly take the warning, Dr. E.

[Crusoe]

My point is, and I see and respect yours, is the MRM is perhaps missing out on a source of support from SAHM's. Whatever your personal views, this is a place you will likely find female support.

How would you sell the MRM to SAHM's?
What would you list as the advantages of supporting men's rights?




Crusoe

[typhonblue]

We are working.   Go fuck yourself, tb.

I'll proudly take the warning, Dr. E.

Alright *cracks knuckles*.

At the turn of the century the average "home-maker"(read: homesteader) worked about 60-80 hours a week.

She did the following:

Raised 4-6 children, canned produce from her garden, raised livestock, sewed and laundered clothing(by hand), cleaned with lye and water, often hauled 40kg of water a day, etc. etc. Often in addition to bringing in money via a cottage industry.

She produced approximately 1/2 of what her family consumed.

Over the last century the bread winner has taken over the traditional tasks of the homesteader(now a home-maker). He(or, rarely, she) purchases clothing(previously made by the lady of the house), purchases fruits and vegetables (formerly harvested by the lady of the house), purchases meats (formerly raised, and often slaughtered, by the lady of the house) and also has basically taken over the tasks of cleaning by purchasing automated cleaning devices (such as vacuumes, washer and dryer, dishwasher, etc.)

Let me repeat this, Sue--er. BQ... wait-- Christine...

THE BREADWINNER DOES 90% OF THE WORK OF SUSTAINING A FAMILY IN THE 21ST CENTURY.

Men are being killed and maimed... they are loosing 6-8 years off their lives through overwork and stress BECAUSE THEY ARE DOING 90% OF SUSTAINING A FAMILY IN THE 21ST CENTURY.

(Which, incidentally, is the only era in which men have ever done so.)

You can swear at me as much as you want. That doesn't change the fact that MEN DO 90% OF THE WORK OF SUSTAINING A FAMILY IN THE 21ST CENTURY.

And that it's killing them. Not just directly, but indirectly since they don't have the free time to address the social issues that concern them. They don't have the free time to champion causes  that women do like... er... feminism(home-maker's little pet project in the 1960-70s.)

I'd like to see women get out of the buggy and haul it along side their man, and THEN say "I love men!"

If you really did, you wouldn't be advocating a lifestyle that kills them. (General you.)

[typhonblue]

How would you sell the MRM to SAHM's?
What would you list as the advantages of supporting men's rights?
Crusoe

How about these?

Fairness
Justice
Human Decency
Gratitude
Love

[Christiane]

It's a good question Crusoe - I'm not a media expert.   Maybe ground will be made one heart and one mind at a time.   There's sure been more talk about these issues around here due to the Duke Lacrosse case.  I don't know the best way to capitalize on that, but maybe that will happen on its own.  

I'm sure this has been discussed, but increasing media coverage of your issues will help.   Would commercials be in order?   I don't know, and I'm not on that committee.   We've certainly got liberal commercials out the wazoo, vis a vis the "Ad Council" et al, why not for Men's Rights?   Commercials educating the public about the real statistics might be helpful.   There is a serious lack of awareness out there, in mainstream America, about the justice of your cause.  

I would be willing to donate to that media effort.   That's just one thought.   I'm sure the people in charge have many other thoughts.

[dr e]

We are working.   Go fuck yourself, tb.

I'll proudly take the warning, Dr. E.

As you wish.

[Christiane]

:lol:    :lol:

[Crusoe]

Crusoe wrote:

How would you sell the MRM to SAHM's?
What would you list as the advantages of supporting men's rights?
Crusoe


How about these?

Fairness
Justice
Human Decency
Gratitude
Love

Pardon me for being cynical, but I haven't noticed a great deal of concern from the top of the food chain of Feminist privilege (SAHM's) over fairness or justice when faced with loss of those privileges.

Maybe I should have phrased:

What specific improvements do you believe the MRM would bring to SAHM's lives?




Crusoe

[Galt]

Yes, and who has the choices?

Here's a specific situation that bothers me:

Let's say that John and Mary are both engineers at General Motors. Mary becomes infatuated with John after his handling of the big cable debacle. John can't seem to look away when Mary wears short skirts.

So they eventually get married.

Mary unilaterally quits, however, 3 months after the marriage, after her boss yells at her. She unilaterally decides to "sacrifice herself" to be a good wife to John.

John isn't at all pleased with that. Mary tells him that he'll get over it.

And then life goes on. Nothing is going to happen. John's friends just shrug their shoulders if he lets on over a beer that it pisses him off. "That's how women are, dude, get over it," says his brother. Some of the women around him tell John that he should be stepping up to the plate, he should be a real man and quit whining; they start shaming him. "What are you, a pimp who wants to live off your wife," they ask? So John just gets used to his role.

Now picture it the other way around:

If John just unilaterally up and quit his job, there would be hell to pay. Mary's mother would scream, "HE DID WHAT?" on the phone as Mary complains. Everyone would hammer him - and rightfully so - because that's something you just don't do to people.  That's not love, that's milking the marriage for all you can.

I'll spare you my anecdotes, but maybe you, the gentle reader, have also seen this happen occasionally in life.  Maybe that's one situation all of us here, including Christiane, can condemn.  But why are women who do this not subject to any societal penalty AND why are they actually REWARDED for that type of behavior if the marriage becomes a family-court issue?  Really strange in my book.

[Galt]

Raised 4-6 children, canned produce from her garden, raised livestock, sewed and laundered clothing(by hand), cleaned with lye and water, often hauled 40kg of water a day, etc. etc. Often in addition to bringing in money via a cottage industry.

She produced approximately 1/2 of what her family consumed.

Over the last century the bread winner has taken over the traditional tasks of the homesteader(now a home-maker). He(or, rarely, she) purchases clothing(previously made by the lady of the house), purchases fruits and vegetables (formerly harvested by the lady of the house), purchases meats (formerly raised, and often slaughtered, by the lady of the house) and also has basically taken over the tasks of cleaning by purchasing automated cleaning devices (such as vacuumes, washer and dryer, dishwasher, etc.)

Good points as usual, Typhonblue.

200 years ago being a homemaker was a back-breaking, full-time job for a lot of people, especially the rural population.

But as society has changed, men are still expected, and brainwashed into, taking on their full traditional responsibilities although this is no longer offset quid pro quo. The propensity on the part of women to "marry up" has remained, but I'm not sure anymore exactly WHAT some of them are offering in return.

What did Heather Mills provide in return for the very high lifestyle that Paul provided for her?  Besides sex?