Challenge to the hate-Amber club

[Amber]

I get shit like this more than once, but they mention syg in it so I thought it would be fun to look at.  This is a guest book signature.  

"I just wanted to say you are a closet feminist anti male propagandist who rides on the coat tails of intellectuals; albeit ignorant of said intellectual's position. Ayn Rand would hide in shame to be on the same ticket with you, Ms. Pawlik. You are a pathetic example of objectivism and pure understanding of gender. Dudley Do Right has more on the ball with Natashia and Bullwinkle than you and your panty sniffing, palm chaffing, jack-off sporting, shit eating loser fair weather friends at stand your ground.com."


I get accused of being a "feminist apologis" rather often.  Mostly, I just see it as a lot of small minded people trying to categorize me into something they hate so they can have a legitimate reason to hate me.  

So my challenge is:  why?  Why am I a "feminist?"

I suppose my anti feminist club at Penn State, staunch opposal to every single feminist tenet; etc., make me a feminist.  I mean .. what is it?  What about me is feminist?  Because I believe in marriage and women having some type of self interest?  Oh ... because I advocate career women?  That's about as 'feminist' as I come.  I'm putting a challenge out there to all my haters to tell me why I am a feminist.  Confront me here, on a public space that it is well known I post at.  For some reason, no one ever does that ... I usually get fly by comments like this.

". Dudley Do Right has more on the ball with Natashia and Bullwinkle than you and your panty sniffing, palm chaffing, jack-off sporting, shit eating loser fair weather friends at stand your ground.com."


Panty sniffing .. obviously someone familiar with Shethinks, specifically Dan ... shit eating ... where have I heard that before?  :scratching_chin:  And Bullwinkle sounds familiar from somewhere ... was that brought up on this board or shethinks before?

Personally I think UR just got more clever at disguising who he is when signing my guest book so I don't autmoatically delete it ... as I delete not necessarily all nasty entrys but rather ones that are clearly trolls.

[Sir Jessy of Anti]

I get accused of being a "feminist apologis" rather often.  Mostly, I just see it as a lot of small minded people trying to categorize me into something they hate so they can have a legitimate reason to hate me.  

So my challenge is:  why?  Why am I a "feminist?"

I suppose my anti feminist club at Penn State, staunch opposal to every single feminist tenet; etc., make me a feminist.  I mean .. what is it?  What about me is feminist?  Because I believe in marriage and women having some type of self interest?  Oh ... because I advocate career women?  That's about as 'feminist' as I come.  I'm putting a challenge out there to all my haters to tell me why I am a feminist.  Confront me here, on a public space that it is well known I post at.  

Can you start with answering the rebuttals to your own previous posts?
I think they might provide some insight.

[The Gonzman]

All right, I'll repeat what I said elsewhere:

You're very big on lecturing men on their traditional roles, responsibilities and the restrictions that come with them.  But when it comes to lecturing women on theirs, you're notably silent, where you even bother to acknowledge them at all.  Women's Rights - a lot of talk about choices and all.  Let a man mention his rights or choices, and you're first in line to mock them.  You come across as the only choices a man has any right to are HOW he is going to fulfill his obligations to the sacred feminine.

That's feminism.  All people are created equal.  Just women are a little more equal than men.

You want it both ways.  You want your cake and eat it too.  You want equality when it's to your advantage, and traditionalism when it's to your advantage.

You're a paranoid.  I've read time and again people questioning your reasoning, and immediately it becomes a personal attack against you in your mind.   The whole idea that you think there is some "Hate Amber" conspiracy against you should set off hundreds of little warning sirens in your head.

You have no POV but your own.  You have no compassion, no empathy.  Your concern about feminism is chiefly trying to turn back the clock on what you feel you have lost.  It's not about how it hurts someone else.  It's how Amber is hurt by it.  If Amber isn't hurt by it, Amber doesn't give a shit.

Not true?  It's evidently how you are percieved, and as the sage saith, perception is everything.  You might try considering for once that when a whole lot of people are hearing you in a way "You Don't Mean" that it isn't their hearing that's the problem but your mouth.

[Amber]

When have I lectured men on a traditional role?  Name one place.

You want it both ways. You want your cake and eat it too. You want equality when it's to your advantage, and traditionalism when it's to your advantage.

This is absurd.  When have I ever advocated 'equality'?  I've said over and over I don't favor "equality."

Ya, there is a hate Amber club.  I'm not paranoid.  On MND, there are discussion about starting a boycott until Mike stops publishing my articles.

You are full of it GONZOKID.  You've been full of it since you first started posting here - first when you made those condescending posts against Alicia.  

Well, anyway ... go ahead and find one place where I said women should have "equality" and no responsiblities.  Back in my shethinks days, I used to come out and say things like women shouldn't have the right to vote.  You mens rights activists live in your own world ... so bitter, so detached from reality.  

Here is a newsflash mens rights activists:  I'm one of your best weapons against feminism.  And the fact that you hate me reveals you for everything you are.  You are not anti feminist you are anti woman.  You don't want to topple feminism - something of which someone like me is capable of.  You'd rather KEEP feminism, because it gives you victim status.  Since feminists discriminate against men, you get victim status and all the protectionism that goes along with it.  I speak the truth, and you know it ... and I'm not a feminist, and lots of people like me ... and THAT'S why you  hate me, no other reason.  

Anyway, what the hell am I doing even engaging these a$$holes who are so condescending, brutish, angry and evil???  UGGGGH, they give me the chills.

[Amber]

In my most recent article, EMB ... I call on men AND women to be wise in their dating habits, to prepare for marriage.  One of the last things I wrote about gender was regarding the chinese martial artist, who was in jail for saving several women - and I come to his *defense* against being victimized, i.e. going to jail over it.  About as close as I come to advocating any kind of traditional role is in my article on Jessica Lynch.  It really had nothing to do with men at all - it had to do with exposing the stupidity of having women in the military.  This is a very classic conservative position.  Anyway ... mens rights activists especially gonzokid live in their own world.  They refuse to see details.  They have no specifics to charge me with.  They could never say in X Y Z article and point you make, I disagree.  It's just a huge swirling wind ... I HATE THAT GIRL.  Just like the feminists.  They can't really even point to X Y Z behavior of men they hate, it's just .... WE HATE MEN!  God, I'm so glad I dont' live in your brain.  <shudders>

[Sir Jessy of Anti]

Well, anyway ... go ahead and find one place where I said women should have "equality" and no responsiblities.

The Draft

Here is a newsflash mens rights activists:  I'm one of your best weapons against feminism.  And the fact that you hate me reveals you for everything you are.

Ok, now wait a minute.  No one here has said they Hate you.  You are a good person full of good ideas, who sometimes happens to react fast too and too emotionally to opinions expressed that vary from yours.  Some of these guys come down hard on you, but that's only because they want to test your metal.  What were you forged in?
Not women's studies class, we know that.  No, you are a schooled thinker who should be able to accept that everyone won't agree with you all the time.

You are not anti feminist you are anti woman.  You don't want to topple feminism - something of which someone like me is capable of.  You'd rather KEEP feminism, because it gives you victim status.  Since feminists discriminate against men, you get victim status and all the protectionism that goes along with it.  I speak the truth, and you know it ... and I'm not a feminist, and lots of people like me ... and THAT'S why you  hate me, no other reason.  

Amber (shakes head), if you would just stop to listen you could challenge the opinions expressed rather than accuse us of hatred.  From what I can see many people here agree with lots' of your opinions.  Christ!  That's what the unthinking left does.

[Amber]

How is my position on the draft an advocacy of "equality"?  First of all, I DO NOT believe in the draft.  However, if there is to be a draft, I specifically say women should not be drafted and men should.  How is this a place where I advocate "equality"?  It specifically is NOT equality.  Duh.  

The people who hate me are on the mensnewsdaily.com forums.  

Find a place where I say I want to "have my cake and eat it too."  Name just one place.

[Amber]

This really has nothing to do with what is going on at this forum.  It has to do with what is going on at the MND forum.  Basically, they sit around and grunt about  how I am 1) young 2) a feminist 3) a man hater ... and a lot of other nonsense.  I've yet to see any of them name any SPECIFICS about me regarding what is wrong about me ... other than I have conservative views about marriage and male/female roles.  So sue me.

And I don't see why any of my articles should have to hit things from the "male perspective."  I'm a female - DUH.  I hit things from the angle I want, from the things that are important to me, usually an Objectivist angle.  If I am "silent" on an issue, it's my perogative.  I write about issues that are current or issues that I am working on for my book.  DuuHHhhhhh.  If the Andrea Yates story were current, I'd be writing about how feminists don't hold women to standards.  In fact, I have an article called The 21st Century Joan of Arc which comes out hard against feminists for wanting protectionism for women.  So how exactly am I even silent on the issue?  

The fact of the matter is these guys are a bunch of leftists.  I'm a conservative.  It has nothing to do with me being a "feminist apologist."  I'm not a feminist.  God, these men are on the level of animals.

[Sir Jessy of Anti]

How is my position on the draft an advocacy of "equality"?  First of all, I DO NOT believe in the draft.  However, if there is to be a draft, I specifically say women should not be drafted and men should.  How is this a place where I advocate "equality"?  It specifically is NOT equality.  Duh.  

Well, in the first place, that is enough to get on your goat, because like the quote says - you didn't advocate equal responsibility for women
i.e. you want the spoils without the effort.

"Well, anyway ... go ahead and find one place where I said women should have "equality" and no responsiblities. "

The people who hate me are on the mensnewsdaily.com forums.  

Umm....then why challenge them here?  It's not like the majority of them can  post here.  Maybe some of them can, I guess.

[Beste]

You want it both ways. You want your cake and eat it too. You want equality when it's to your advantage, and traditionalism when it's to your advantage.

Find a place where I say I want to "have my cake and eat it too."  Name just one place.

Where?!?! In same post I quoted you from.

Can you see it?

How is my position on the draft an advocacy of "equality"?  First of all, I DO NOT believe in the draft.  However, if there is to be a draft, I specifically say women should not be drafted and men should.

Does anyone else see it?

How is this a place where I advocate "equality"?  It specifically is NOT equality.  Duh.

That's his whole point. Duh.

[The Gonzman]

Look, you asked.  You got answered.  Of couirse dozens of people say the same damn thing, but no, we're wrong, and we...

Christ in a bucket.

Advocating that neither men nor women should act like assholes, or drive against traffic, or eat rat poison isn't advocating anything in the way of egalitarianism.  Yeah, in that respect you're right -

You advocate that men should be the ones to go off and fight and die - but women should have full say in making the policies they die for.

You advocate that women should have the right to home or career, as they choose.  Should men?  Or are men who decide they want to "choose" meninists, like Karen DeCoster says?  If men are going to have a "responsibility" s to support their families when push comes to shove, should they or should they not recieve preferences in hiring, raises, promotions, and such?  Yes or No?

Should there, or should there not be a rebuttable presumption of joint custody in the case of divorce?  Notice carefully, Amber, we "anti-woman MRAs" all use this term.  Or are you another one of these traditionalist, ertsatz anti-feminists who want to make sure you still have the "screw the man" trump card reserved for yourself?

Alimony - abolish it?  Yes or no?

Susan Smith, Andrea Yates - should they have recieved Death Sentences - JUST LIKE A MAN WOULD HAVE?  Yes or no?

If I defrauded you out of a hundred grand over a fifteen year period, I would go to jail, and be subject to draconian repayment.  Should women who defraud men similarly through paternity fraud suffer similar consequences?  Yes or No?  Should they suffer ANY consequences, of a real nature?  Or just get a "tsk, tsk, you bad girl, shouln't oughter" from society?

You believe in Marriage?  Real case - done countless times - Anne and Bob are married.  One day Anne decides she isn't "fulfilled" so she starts an affair, files a bogus charge of abuse to get Bob out of the house, and takes him for kids and the "infrastructure." (House, car, bank accounts, etc.)  Bob is also stuck with the bills, the mortgage, and Child support, even though his business collapsed (Anne got half of it, and cashed her chips in, leaving Bob with insufficient capital to continue) Bob is still liable for an imputed income of triple what he makes.  It can be empirically stated that bob was a loyal, hardworking, and gentle man who never raised his hand and hardly ever his voice.  Crock of shit, or no?  Should meaningful change be enacted in such a system?  Better yet, since Anne unilaterally decided to trash the marriage, is it or is it not right and just that she walk out with no legal entitlements to anything - just like a man would if he abandoned his family?  Yes or no?  Is she scum, or is it "different" because she's a woman?

Ypou want to impress MRAs, and give them no ammunition?  Try addressing the issues that mean something to them, rather than superficialities.

[LSBeene]

Amber, my response

I have, on many occasions, expressed my ADMIRATION of you and my SUPPORT of you.  I even sent you a PM.  

But what GONZO says is PERFECTLY VALID.  We MRA's are against the FALSE DV INDUSTRY, no accountability in child support, lack of access to children, the lack of penalty to false allegations, and other INJUSTICES that men face.  

I have made no secret of being falsely accused of rape.  I don't "revel" in it.  But I will NOT sit tight and not "whine" while my life gets ripped apart.  There is nothing WRONG with me trying to prevent what heppened to me happening to others.  

I am also a supporter of "traditional marraiges".  My wife is great.  I also picked her because of her values.  And I hope she would say the same.  I will now tell you I picked an ASIAN woman, specifically because she was not infected/indoctrinated with the Princess-Equal syndrome that American women seem to subscribe to.  

You DO need to LISTEN, not put a 20 page diatribe, to WHY men are upset about the current status quo.  The men in this country are getting a raw deal on many fronts.   But when we speak about it we get shouted down, fired for expressing our opinions, discounted as being angry, and flat out ignored.  

Just my thoughts, and not very well written, I'm kinda tired

Steven

[nyet]

One of the ways that Amber is exaclty like a leftist is that she favors a 'one size fits all' approach to things,

Leftists almost always favor such approaches to solving the problems of society.

Another reason she's like a leftist is that she insists her opinion is a fact, and she lauches quickly into ad hominem attacks any time her opinion is questioned or debated. Like a true leftist, she allows no room for the possibility that she might be wrong.

Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin and the rest of the members of the Continental Congress showed that they had values, and wise ideas. They were also wise enough to know that they didn't know everything, and instead of being tyrannical in trying to apply their opinions to everyone, left room for their mistakes to be changed.

Amber also displays at least some level of hypocrisy, in that she posts about how men and women should practice modesty and be virtuous and states that she believes in those things, yet does not practice what she preaches. She has posted on at least one other messageboard about how much she loves the cock (acting just like one of those valueless 'sluts' she decries so much) and swears like a drunken sailor when anyone disagrees with her (not the ladylike behaviour she seems to believe all other women should exhibit). Further, after her preachings about being a good and moral person, she skulks off to go go and 'get drunk with other people.'

Amber
[00:54] Rebam98: I'm getting drunk and having fun with other people

She, like a liberal, is fast to abandon fact and logic and to jump into emotion (classic also to feminists) and seems to see nothing wrong with angry and violent outbursts (which the feminists of Ms. have posted extensively on their own violent tempers.) Also like a feminist, any debate against her ideas is seen as a personal attack, as hatred. The only difference is that Amber limits the belief of hatred to herself, where feminists extend it to the whole gender.

Amber's got good ideas, but she needs to learn to lay off hte emotional outbursts and belief that anyone who disagrees with her 'hates' her. She also needs to give up the idea that she knows everything. Nobody, no matter how wise they are, knows everything - but the person who believes they know everything is the most foolish. Amber could use hearing these things to grow in her abilities to write and to debate, and I hope she does. It would serve to strengthen the foundation of her opinions, and get people to take her more seriously than the current impression, which is that she is a histrionic solipsist.

[InternetDevil]

So my challenge is:  why?  Why am I a "feminist?"

I understand that you are very much against 1965 feminism which I and most people in men's movement support -- gender eqality.  But you seem to be for 2003 feminism -- rigid traditional burdens for men magnified many times.

[Rayden]

I think Amber needs to get a job, busy hands are happy hands.